South Park Survivor?

[Robert McFarland]

Check out what appears to be the near twin of a DSP&P Mason Bogie(or a possible survivor) at work on a Michigan logging RR on the NGDF under the topic Not Your Typical Logging Locomotive ??G

[Chris Walker]

Nope

Hovey & McCracken #1, built new by Mason Machine Works, near Muskegon junction Michigan. 1898
as per Steam And Thunder in the Timber, Michael Koch pg 209.

[Robert McFarland]

What is the background on Hovey& McCracken #1? Did it have a previous owner?

[Chris Walker]

Built New as I said above, ie built new for them, photo was 1898.  The info came from a very reputable author of which I have nothing more recent to doubt his accuracy, his tome was published in 1979 and there may be something more recent out there.  You do so want this to have come from the DSP&P, right? :)


from this Arcadia Title: Lake City and Missaukee County.

[Robert McFarland]

No,I just thought it might have been built from the same pattern as the smaller DSP&P Bogies in that there is a lot of similarities.The postings on DSP-P Yahoo site have brought out a lot of info on the engine in the photo

[Jim Courtney]

We tend to forget that the South Park wasn't the only early narrow gauge road to purchase Mr Mason's product.

Seattle had its own Mason bogie:


University of Washington Archives


The Columbia and Puget Sound was a 3 foot line built from the coal mining towns of Black Diamond and Newcastle, in the Cascade foothills, to haul coal to the Seattle waterfront, to fuel the visiting steam ships.

The A.A. Denny was named after one of Seattle's pioneer businessmen, now best known for the congested, impassable city street bearing his name (google "The Mercer / Denny Mess").

The little 0-6-4 bogie spent most of her time switching coal cars along the tide flat trackage on piers, in the area near the current baseball and football stadiums:





Early C&PS cabooses evidently looked a lot like DSP&P cabooses. The C&PS mainline heads east to the Cascade foot hills on the long curving trestle at the distant top right, skirting the mud flats of Elliot Bay.


Occasional little "AA Denny" got to take excursionists or picnickers out on the mainline:



Museum of History and Industry, Seattle


As standard gauging is in the works, with outside third rail, narrow gauge days are numbered.  The railroad would survive as the Pacific Coast Railroad, eventually absorbed by the Great Northern as a branchline.

Today the towns of Black Diamond and Newcastle are affluent bedroom communities for the Seattle / Bellevue area.

[Chris Walker]

Jim, I hear a song playing in my Head....the bluest sky you ever seen, in Seattle 

[Jim Courtney]

True today, Chris . . . but not yesterday.

Are the lyrics from that Technicolor masterpiece of a musical, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers?

[Chris Walker]

Jim,
the theme to Here Come The Brides, a corny American TV show from my early years.

[Jim Courtney]

Chris,

"Here Come the Brides" was the TV show knock off, based on the movie musical "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers":

I remember watching the TV show, too, whilst a kid in Texas.


Speaking of Texas, my home state had it's own 3 foot gauge Mason Bogie, at least for a little while:



http://oldtomstoys.com/category/mason-bogie/page/3/


The "Dixi Crosby", number 22 of the Galveston, Harrisburg & San Antonio RR, was built by Mason in 1877, originally as North Pacific Coast number 3, the "Tomales".  For what ever reason, the NPC never took delivery, so the "Tomales" never pulled trains on the NPC with her sister (brother?) "Bully Boy".

Evidently, Mason shopped around for buyers, finally unloading the little Bogie on this early Texas railroad, which eventually became part of the Southern Pacific (Texas & New Orleans) system.  The little "Dixi" was standard gauged at some point, and eventually renumbered as S.P. 658 in 1884.

That's right! Even the Espeee had a Mason Bogie.

[Chris Walker]

Apparently there is now a new er publication that states this Loco was from the DSP&P.  
"Minnesota Logging Railroads" by Frank Alexander King.
There is no mention of where that reference to the acquisition of came from nor did Koch in the referred post state either his source.  

So who has the Mason Book or listing of Mason production, neither are in my library?

Dale Phelps has notified me of this via email, apparently a new reader to these pages. I cannot access the referred Googlebooks down here to read the whole book.  

I don't dispute either author FWIW.

[Paul R.]

Jim and all,
The Mason book states the ex Tomales was rebuilt to standard gauge in anticipation for service on the Central Railroad of Minnesota. It was the#563 and went to Texas with the name of Dixi Crosby.The engine was built in anticipation of the need for a heavy NG freight engine. There is a page in the book about this loco!. Paul R.

[Paul R.]

Jim,
In the book "SP Steam Locomotive Compendium" under Galverston, Harrisburg and San Antonio Railway, loco entry there are three mason bogies- Dixi Crosby, H B Stone, and Commodore Garrison. I assume they were all gone before the formation of SP. Interesting!! Paul R.

[Chris Walker]

My thanks to Dale for bringing this to our attention.  
Dale mentioned he is too new here to Post, I was unaware there was any restrictions on new Posters. Darel?


I had a chance to look over this again and I offer this thought:

The info as per Steam And Thunder in the Timber, Michael Koch pg 209 would still stand in my thoughts, and I base that on a quick perusal of the DSP&P Mason photos I had available, be noting I haven't looked at every picture yet.

The reason I think that Micheal Koch is correct: that the Headlight Bracket is not of the DSP&P design, even with the Iowa University donated Mason Bogie retained that while on display, and the Seattle  A.A. Denny version shows a different Bracket as does the Michigan Hovey & McCracken #1, which are identical on both "outsider"  Mason Bogies, BUT not the same casting as the DSP&P.

It would take a huge stretch of imagination to suggest the original bracket was removed and an equally ornate casting substituted and riveted onto the Smokebox.

That to me alone suggests that the Arcadia book "Minnesota Logging Railroads" by Frank Alexander King is in error but whether that assumption actually is correct will be a very hard task to confirm.  
I can barely make out the caption from what Dale attached. ".....came to Michigan from Colorado's famed Denver, South Park and Pacific Railroad" there was only a one page with caption no related text nor acknowledged references to view,that may or may not be in this book.

Did the Author just look at the Bogie and assume that it came from the DSP&P simply because they had them?  Or perhaps some diligent research turned up some unknown factual locomotive sale?  Conversely, just from where did Koch get his "New from Mason"  fact?

[Mike Trent]

There shouldn't be a problem posting once he has been designated a member.

It may be that like some others who register, Dale has not used a real name, or indicated his interest in South Park railroading.

We get a number of spammers who register, and they do much the same. No name, no indication of interest. When this happens, new applicants may be ignored, to protect the site from spammers.

Dale, please contact Darel or me, and we will get you set up.

Be patient with the process, the goal here is to prevent spam mayhem in the forum.

Mike Trent
[e-mail]