Roof Hatch Boxcars

[Keith Hayes]

The time has come to talk about Roof Hatch Boxcars. These really deserve their own thread.


Car 8237 with an 'eclipse herald. As Waycar 1003 is in the photo, this must be along Clear Creek.

I did some searching within the Forum, looking for 'boxcar,' 'Phase III,' and finally found a solid clue in a string from 2015 on 'Freight Car Ratios.'



According to Darrell Poole in NG Pictorial Volume VIII, at least eight boxcars were modified with roof hatches in June 1936 to move building materials to Climax. According toe Darrell, the car numbers are 8237, 8276, 8281, 8308, 8379, 8394, 8408 and 8417. Derrell determined the numbers through close examination of photographs. The car numbers are all Phase III cars, built in 1909 and 1910.


Four boxcars with roof hatches in an Alma image attributed to 1935.

Darrell shared this in a 1/19/2015 post:

The C&Sng roof hatch cars have not really been discussed on this forum yet. It is an interesting mystery. The Schwedlers pointed them out to me many years ago and it took a bit of forensic investigation to find out as little as we know today. At least one car went to the RGS - 8308 iirc. There are photos of such cars on the Highline to Climax as well as Alma and others. They show up in the early '30s, about the time the big mill at Climax was being built. I'm not sure when the mill at Alma was built (off the non-existent top of my head). Anyway, as the fog slowly burns off, we see in the bigger picture - a proliferation (?) of cement transport by rail all over the country. Big concrete mills? Box cars with roof hatches? Seems sorta obvious....


An excellent top-side view of a boxcar with a roof hatch spotted in Black Hawk.

And this follow up post dated 1/20/2015:

The information appears two places in Vol. VIII page 11 and page 211. Again as mentioned above Stan Schewdlers pointed out a photo (page 41 Vol. VIII) and asked what I knew about the hatches. Well that started the search and eventually I found 8 numbers. Where? In piles and piles of photographs. I don't know if these 8 were all of them and I never found any description of their use. This has been a matter of deduction such as we've touched on.

Late 30's view of Blackhawk with Boxcar 8281 with roof hatches plus 8283 without. R. Kindig.

Harry's article was written after I shared what I knew with him. When I operated that obscure little one-horse parts business "the C&S Connection" I made white metal castings of these in O scale. They had one large hinge on them.

If you check out pages 183 and 184 of Rail Annual 12 you will find where I got the details of the text you quoted (and note that I credit my sources including Stan and Rail Annual 12 on page 18). On page 211 are the charts I developed for quick reference to understanding (more or less) C&S Freight Rolling Stock.

Finally, there is this detail posted 2/6/2015:

My list is unofficial - gathered from a search of photographs. Only official recognition of one car (8308 iirc) being repaired in prep for transfer to the RGS.


Perhaps the best pic of the hatches is this image from the Waycar looking toward French Gulch tank.

Good news for all readers: these cars were used all over the system! No doubt they were used to haul sand and cement, two granular products moved in too large a quantity to bag that also need to stay dry. It is handy that only steel underframe cars were modified, though these would have been the newest cars in the fleet with the best underframes. All the cars that were modified seem to have the 11-rib Murphy roof, similar to those used by the D&RGW on the 3000-series cars. Automobile Car 8242 also has an 11-rib Murphy roof.



So, what about the hatches? The Black Hawk view is helpful showing that the hatches are approximately centered on a roof rib, just inboard of the bolsters. There is one complete roof rib inboard of the end roof walk, then the hatch. In fact, there may be no rib where the hatch is, just a double-wide sheet metal roof pan. The pan seems to be built-up to the hatch, and the hatch door itself seems like the flimsiest thing we could imagine! The French Gulch photo makes it look like a piece of plywood with a single, large barn hinge, and a 'U'-shaped handle at the opposite end to help with opening.



The Black Hawk pic indicates that there is a block, or sometimes there is a block, for the open hatch to rest upon. (That car is also an Eclipse Herald,).

As i contemplate modeling this, I am thinking the hatches are square, the dimension across the car is about 6" less than the distance from the roof walk to the roof edge. The hatch itself is thin, maybe 3/4" plywood. There is a single hinge, with a rectangular leaf on a block mounted to the roof, and a triangular leaf on the door itself, with (2) carriage bolts holding it on. The latch might best be modeled with some wire, but it looks to be flattned to mount to the hatch with two or four bolts. And there seems to be a mating part on the roof.

What do you all see? Got any opinions on this before I start modelling?

I have two Overland/ PBL kits that will be the basis for my models of these cars.

[Tim Schreiner]

Thanks for posting this. I had no idea they existed.

[Chris Walker]

 Roof Hatch Boxcar threads....
http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/C-S-74-Entering-Leadville-tp17245p17252.html
http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Freight-car-ratios-td205.html#a310

[Keith Hayes]

Chris, those are the threads from which I captured Darrell's text.

Here is an enlargement of a hatch taken from a cupola

Here is my model to far. What do you all think?

The hatch itself is a bit thicker than I like, but I fear if I make it any thinner, it will not render at scale. I think it is 1", rather than 3/4". The dimension from the roof walk to the edge of the car is about 36". This roof hatch is about 30" square.

[Norm Acker]

Nice work as usual, Keith! Has anything changed with Thangs (Shapeways) or the ability for us in other scales to get some of these little beauties? I have several plastic and resin boxcar kits that would love to come to life as a couple of these interesting cars... :D