Outside Braced Boxcars. C.C.RR and D.S.P.&P.RR

[Chris Walker]

Wet day discovery....since I knew about this car....
which appears to be an outgrowth from a Flatcar, same as the early DSP&P Stockcars.

C-78

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/76183/rv/singleitem


and had found no more like it...until now, this appearing to be purpose built.

CHS.J77

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/6140/rv/singleitem/rec/1

EDIT: My apologies to Mal Ferrell who published the lower photo in his South Park Line pg211

[Jim Courtney]

Chris,

I believe the car in the lower photo, DSP&P 913, is one of the tall outside braced charcoal boxcars. So, yes, it was purposefully built, not a modification of a flat car. I would guess the date to be mid to late 1880s, not post 1890, as per the DPL caption

It is coupled to three Santa Fe standard gauge boxcars, so it is either in a mixed gauge cut of cars on 3-rail track at the smelter or has been converted to standard gauge use by the new U.P. owners. Another one of the beasts appears to be in the distance at the right frame.


Either way, this is one of those "Holy Grail" South Park photos.  Perhaps Ron Rudnick could clarify and edify.

Thanks for posting this great photo!


Now, how's about finding a clear photo of one of the Le Mothe (sp?) coal cars of pipe construction?

[Robert McFarland]

Compare the trucks with the SG car.I believe it is on NG trucks and not coupled to the SG car.Is that a DSP&P 27ft boxcar to the right and behind it?

[Robert McFarland]

Good find,Chris!Jim,I believe the car in DPL Z-3421 has been identified as a Le Mothe car.

[Jim Courtney]

Sorry Robert, but that negative number returns no hits on DPL.

[Robert McFarland]

Try it again.I plugged the number in and it went right  to it.I originally found the photo by plugging in the subject heading Alpine Tunnel.

[Jim Courtney]

Ah, yes.

That's the stereo view that Mal Ferrell included in The South Park Line. Hard to tell much about the car in that photo.

I was hoping that Chris might find a clearer view of one of these cars, hiding somewhere.  He has a knack for such things!!

[Robert McFarland]

Detailed drawings and info in Rudnicks DSP&P freight car book p17-18. on the Le Mothe car.

[Chris Walker]

Yes these cars are on the narrow side of dual gauge track, confirmation of where the outer sg rail sits helps, is easy in this picture.
I'm certain that there are 4 in this picture,  no Moths though!  Sth'Pk will fill us in on the insulators visible.

As to dating the view, when did the U.P. start over marking the older cars?


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/6140/rv/singleitem/rec/1

[Robert McFarland]

What about the 27ft."Union Pacific" boxcar above right of #1?

[Paul R.]

Is that another UP boxcar above left of #1 as well.? Paul R.

[Robert McFarland]

Rudnick's book seems to say that there is another train on the upper level near the Palisades in the photo that focuses on the train on the lower level with the two Tiffanys.This train is supposed to have one or two Le Mothe cars in it.The photo's on DPL but they won't cough it up and I don't know it's number.

[Chris Walker]

 cough,    cough,

This one?  Robert.  



http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/9869/rv/singleitem/rec/9

[Robert McFarland]

Yep!The car you focused on seems to resemble the car Rudnick drew in his plan.

[Chris Walker]

 and D.S~P.&P.RR

[South Park]

Chris Walker wrote

 Sth'Pk will fill us in on the insulators visible.



http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/6140/rv/singleitem/rec/1

======================

  Most likely, the one insulator seen up close, with some clarity, is a CD 102 Brookfield ...
what is known to collectors as a "CREB", or CRown Embossed Brookfield, like this one:



  However, one of the things that makes Colorado narrow gauge era history so much fun
from an insulator collecting standpoint, is that the region used a pot pourri of different
manufacturers' goods and the variety is about as good as it got ANYWHERE !

  Two very rare types of early 102's were also found around the region.  One (on left) is
totally unmarked and no one has the slightest idea who made it:



  While the other has just the marking "Pat'd" embossed on the base.  This type was linked
to an obscure mfr., Cadiz Glass Works, in Cadiz, Ohio in recent years, after the site was
developed for a petrol station and the remains of 1000's of broken ones were littering the
site.

  The CD 102 (a modern collector-created style numbering system) first appeared in the
July 1878 Tillotson catalogue:



  It was essentially a shrunk-down version of the Western Union "Standard" insulator
(CD 126) as seen in these photos:

 

Here, at the Alpine Tunnel snowsheds, 1884, and:



Here, along the D&RG mainline in the Arkansas Valley.

Other options could be this one-known unmarked purple dude:



Or even possible this Hemingray No.8 ???



I would put money on it being the first option, the common Brookfield
unit.  I found lots of them all over the area.  But who knows ?  Given
the period of development, it was the heyday of small glass works and
suppliers.  Maybe it was a super exotic Westinghouse No.3 in peacock
blue ???