Merry Christmas from Romley

[Randy Rieck]

[Jeff Young]

Nice scene, Randy!

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Jim Courtney]

Love that St Charles coal car!

[Todd A Ferguson]

Very nice work Randy!
Would or has anyone talked about backdating the D&RG 3000 series boxcars?

Best,
Todd Ferguson
Harrisburg, NC

[Randy Rieck]

Hi Todd,

I do not know of any blog posting or article in magazines that discuss back dating 3000 series D&RG box cars. A start to such a project it seems would be really good scale drawings.  Robert Sloan in his book A Century + Ten of  D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars, 1871-1981 included detailed D&RG drawings for the 3000 series cars as built.  The cars were built in 1903 and rebuilt in 1926 to their current configuration with safety appliances and metal roofs.  You may have this book, but if not, it is still available.  I only have some poor copies of several pages and they would not post well.  The car can be built from scratch or be started with one of the fine kits from San Juan, Rail Line or P-B-L.  You want the 3000 series "Economy Door" kit.

The changes you may want to make are:
* Remove metal roof and replace with a wood roof.
* Remove metal coupler pockets and replace with wood buffer blocks.
* Remove all cast on grab iron hardware and replace grab irons as shown on plan.
* Enclose side doors and end door hardware per the plan.
* Fabricate stirrup steps per the plan.
* Modify Kadee Coupler with knuckle slot to represent a transition coupler.
* Install NBW castings on fasia board per the plan.
* Make any other changes you find necessary.

Randy

[Todd A Ferguson]

Hey Randy,

Thanks for the reply and input on steps required. I got a San Juan kit for Christmas and was thinking about it as a backdating project. I have Professor Sloan's book and it has some good info regarding the early cars. I guess I am also wondering if the cars were rebuilt with different bolsters in the 20's or used the original ones. I also wonder if the sills were originally spliced or if that was a rebuild change too. I guess I need to refer to my book!

I am also wondering about the C&S Phase III boxcars in On3. I have not seen a kit for this car that seems to be very common on the C&S. does one use the Grandt Line underframe and scratchbuild the body? How similar in size is the body on the reefer with the steel underframe. Guess I need to do some more research on that too. I'm used to having the Phase III cars available in Sn3 I guess.

Best,

Todd Ferguson 

Harrisburg, NC 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:34 AM, Randy Rieck [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Todd,

I do not know of any blog posting or article in magazines that discuss back dating 3000 series D&RG box cars. A start to such a project it seems would be really good scale drawings.  Robert Sloan in his book A Century + Ten of  D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars, 1871-1981 included detailed D&RG drawings for the 3000 series cars as built.  The cars were built in 1903 and rebuilt in 1926 to their current configuration with safety appliances and metal roofs.  You may have this book, but if not, it is still available.  I only have some poor copies of several pages and they would not post well.  The car can be built from scratch or be started with one of the fine kits from San Juan, Rail Line or P-B-L.  You want the 3000 series "Economy Door" kit.

The changes you may want to make are:
* Remove metal roof and replace with a wood roof.
* Remove metal coupler pockets and replace with wood buffer blocks.
* Remove all cast on grab iron hardware and replace grab irons as shown on plan.
* Enclose side doors and end door hardware per the plan.
* Fabricate stirrup steps per the plan.
* Modify Kadee Coupler with knuckle slot to represent a transition coupler.
* Install NBW castings on fasia board per the plan.
* Make any other changes you find necessary.

Randy

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[Randy Rieck]

Hi Todd,

The plans in Sloan's book look like steel double plate bolsters. You will have to research the under body details more.

Since you brought up the steel under frame box cars, here is one made from Grandt Line under frame and San Juan body.

Why did you change from Sn3 to On3?

Randy

[Todd A Ferguson]

Hey Randy,

I pulled out Dr. Sloan's book and my Narrow Gauge Pictorial on the D&RGW 3000 series cars this afternoon. I would concur with you that they look like double plate bolsters on the original drawings. Need to study and research some more though. What do you use for the short queen post like supports on the ends of the cars. Is such a part available in O scale. I don't know of a specific part like that in S scale. But there could be something I don't know about too.

I like the car made from the combination on San Juan and Grandt parts. I find it interesting that Grandt never did the boxcar or reefer in On3 when they did the tooling in Sn3 for Overland as I understand it. Maybe just a question of money. That is why I was wondering about the body of the reefer and how close it was to the boxcar. Seems it should be close, but I should consult the drawings I guess. 

I'm not sure I have switched to On3 as much as just moved into On3 some. Just find the mass of the models interesting I guess. My Sn3 stuff is circa fall 1940 RGS. But I have picked up some CW Sn3 kits along the way and even owned a C&S 60 for a few years. I am interested in 1905-1915 timeframe with On3 at this point...very different from 1940. I'll see where it goes. I have purchased a number of South Park and C&S books in the past several months but haven't had much time to read and learn.

I find your layout and its concept very interesting but I know virtually nothing about that part of the C&S. I have spent more effort on the Clear Creek line.

Best,

Todd Ferguson 

Harrisburg, NC 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:11 PM, Randy Rieck [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Todd,

The plans in Sloan's book look like steel double plate bolsters. You will have to research the under body details more.

Since you brought up the steel under frame box cars, here is one made from Grandt Line under frame and San Juan body.

Why did you change from Sn3 to On3?

Randy

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[Robert McFarland]

Why are both of these cars coopered?

[Keith Hayes]

Todd/ Randy, consider using a stock car roof to substitute for the metal Murphy roof. Also, Jim Courtney turned me on to the variety of Queen posts manufactured by Grandt's in On3. Some 2" or 3" posts should work as recommended by others (see Mr. Poole's article on SUF refers on the main page). I cannot speak to your questions about either the bolster or the spliced frame.  I helped reconstruct 6308, now an idler flay and formerly a stock car. It had spliced center sills (oak at the ends, spruce in the middle) and a strap bolster. The end of ther top strap extends down the inside face of the outermost sill and then underneath.

There were minor dimensional differences among the SUF cars (refer-stock-box-coal), but the Grandt's frame should serve as a basis for any of these. I recall the kit was designed back in the day when guys like me wanted something of a challenge. But not so much as to scratch build a  cast steel underframe. 😎

[Chris Walker]

Unpainted (or grey painted) styrene inside sheathing visible through the doorway, no Coopering involved there Robert.

[Robert McFarland]

Right!How come is it that the framing timbers(not the sheathing) are almost unnoticable until you enlarge the photo?In the photo ads of the Cimmaron DSP&P 600 boxcars you could see the interior framing.Why were the sides and ends only sheathed about halfway up on a boxcar?

[Todd A Ferguson]

I would assume a couple reasons...

To save cost of sheathing all the way up...just not necessary. Loads of unbagged or unbarrelled products would reach the load limit before reaching too high in the car interior.

Second, to save weight. Extra sheathing to the top would just add weight and reduce the capacity of the car to carry freight weight. It is a compromise of function vs cost and weights the end.

Best,

Todd Ferguson 

Harrisburg, NC 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Robert McFarland [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Right!How come is it that the framing timbers(not the sheathing) are almost unnoticable until you enlarge the photo?In the photo ads of the Cimmaron DSP&P 600 boxcars you could see the interior framing.Why were the sides and ends only sheathed about halfway up on a boxcar?

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[Mike Trent]

Hi Todd

Attached are two boxcars I built back in the early 80's using old On3 Tomalco 3000 series bodys and Grandt underframes which were new at that time.





I built three of these cars. When Grandt produced these underframes it changed everything for us C&S guys. I have a built boxcar that the guy who built it claims was an actual kit from Grandtline. That may be true, but I don't think many were produced. I have started a boxcar which I am planning to build from a Grandt Stock Car kit with new styrene sides. I agree with Keith's comments about using a Grandt stock car roof, as that is what appears to be on my apparently Grandt car, and they look different from the Murphy style roof that appears in the two attached photos.

Randy, thanks for posting these pictures, you are doing some really good work!

Mike    

[Todd A Ferguson]

Hi Mike,

Very nice work on the boxcars!

I have wondered the past couple days if one could start with the Grandt stock car and use the ends and roof with new sides to make a Phase III boxcar. I was also wondering about the reefer kits that Keith Wiseman sells as a possible conversion to a Phase III boxcar. I guess I will have to lay out some parts and compare them and then compare against some drawings and perhaps the Sn3 Phase III kits I have. Seems like there are some possibilities to explore for sure.

Best,

Todd Ferguson 

Harrisburg, NC 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 28, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Mike Trent [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Todd

Attached are two boxcars I built back in the early 80's using old On3 Tomalco 3000 series bodys and Grandt underframes which were new at that time.





I built three of these cars. When Grandt produced these underframes it changed everything for us C&S guys. I have a built boxcar that the guy who built it claims was an actual kit from Grandtline. That may be true, but I don't think many were produced. I have started a boxcar which I am planning to build from a Grandt Stock Car kit with new styrene sides. I agree with Keith's comments about using a Grandt stock car roof, as that is what appears to be on my apparently Grandt car, and they look different from the Murphy style roof that appears in the two attached photos.

Randy, thanks for posting these pictures, you are doing some really good work!

Mike    

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[Robert Stears]

Beautiful work Mike.

 

I am embarking on On3 models of RPO/BAGGAGE cars #11 and 13 in laser cut acrylic (Rowmark) and scratch built styrene. I would love to see photos of your #13 model for inspiration.

 

Bob

 

 

From: Mike Trent [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 2:28 PM
To: Robert Stears <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas from Romley

 

Hi Todd

Attached are two boxcars I built back in the early 80's using old On3 Tomalco 3000 series bodys and Grandt underframes which were new at that time.





I built three of these cars. When Grandt produced these underframes it changed everything for us C&S guys. I have a built boxcar that the guy who built it claims was an actual kit from Grandtline. That may be true, but I don't think many were produced. I have started a boxcar which I am planning to build from a Grandt Stock Car kit with new styrene sides. I agree with Keith's comments about using a Grandt stock car roof, as that is what appears to be on my apparently Grandt car, and they look different from the Murphy style roof that appears in the two attached photos.

Randy, thanks for posting these pictures, you are doing some really good work!

Mike    

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[Keith Hayes]

Didn't San Juan release the SUF refer as a kit ages ago? Surely some of those linger unbuilt. Crossing Gateway? What about Crossing Gateway?

(Robert any chance of running a set of those acrylic car sides in 1:64? Unless you are doing the early cars with the end platform, in which case I will have to wait for my SketchUp skills.)

[Todd A Ferguson]

I don't recall any Phase III from San Juan at all. I believe that they only did the Phase II boxcar and stock car which are still available.

The Phase III reefers I know of are the Design Tech and the one Keith Wiseman offers now. Not sure what the origin of the Wiseman model was.

Best,

Todd Ferguson 

Harrisburg, NC 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 28, 2016, at 9:51 PM, Keith Hayes [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Didn't San Juan release the SUF refer as a kit ages ago? Surely some of those linger unbuilt. Crossing Gateway? What about Crossing Gateway?

(Robert any chance of running a set of those acrylic car sides in 1:64? Unless you are doing the early cars with the end platform, in which case I will have to wait for my SketchUp skills.)

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[Randy Rieck]

Hi,

Thanks for the positive comments.  The posted photos by others of steel underframe box cars models really capture the prototype.

Todd is correct. The steel underframe reefer was done by Design-Tech owned by Doug Heitkamp.  The resin kit, using a Grandt
steel underframe, was produced in the late 1990's. The resin castings were exceedingly fine and even showed the wood grain. Several years ago Dave Grandt posted a C&S Way-Bill showing reefer #1115 going from Romley to Denver containing bottles with a
weight of 2,210 pounds.  The Way-Bill was dated March 27, 191?.  While you might first think these were empty Coors beer bottles,
John Schapekahm points out that this is during prohibition.  Perhaps they were near beer bottles. The freight charge was $7.63. The
same Way-Bill shows the shipment of 4 car loads of concentrate from Romley.  

The photo shows the car on the Buena Vista 3 rail interchange track.

[Jim Courtney]

Randy and Rick, exquisite models!

Grandt produced an injection molded SUF boxcar in HOn3, not sure about On3. Later, Tom Marsh talked Grandt into creating tooling for the same kit in Sn3, marketed by Overland Models in the 1990's, along with the SUF coal car and reefer. They were also tooled to the same specs as the HOn3 reefer and coal cars (the latter have been discontinued, as Microtrains RTR cars made them redundant).

Eventually, PBL acquired the Grandt tooling from Overland and still offers the Reefer and Boxcar in Sn3. PBL also offers the SUF stock car, from tooling of its own design, but using various detailing parts from the original Grandt Line tooling. The HOn3 parts and Sn3 parts are the same except for scale--even the part locations on the sprues and the instructions are the same!

Jim