Is this Derrell's Eight-wheel caboose on the C&Sng???

[Chris Walker]

Isn't the Diamond IF I'm seeing what you're seeing, a Dangerous Goods placard on the Door?  

[Jim Courtney]

I think your right, Chris.  And all the unintelligible letttering on the house cars suggests "Union Pacific" with a large car number under the road name, all consistent with DL&G days in the mid 1890's.

[Derrell Poole]

Rick - that's an interesting explanation for the wheel - and it is definitely a wheel. I don't think there was any "photo shopping" of the photo to put the wheel there. Plausible explanation that at least provides the possibility.

Maybe the MCB got his "hare-brained" idea from a super bowl commercial. But you point out perhaps the best reason the 4-bobbers were 4-bobbers - they were light and added as little as practical to the overall train weight. And why maybe a heavy ex D&NO, ex sg caboose, got relegated to outfit early on; not in the spirit of eeking out all the paying tonnage as possible over those tough hills.

I am in agreement about Hancock car as the likely source of C&S 912 (DL&G 025). I'm sure I have a photo of 912 someplace but haven't had time to find it yet - and I wasn't watching the super bowl either. But you always make me feel uncomfortable so its all the same. Ha!

[Derrell Poole]

Thank You, Jim! You are always welcome to speak up and its good to hear from people who enjoy the discussions. I know people enjoy the discussions here but it is a lot of work to talk at this level of detail. My computer is surrounded with files photos and books of all sorts - Vicki thinks its a mess! All in the eyes of the beholder I guess.

[Derrell Poole]

Oh, Keith: you always have to know the details... that's good. That's good. I don't know exactly when Dr. Scott took this photo. It could be early TOC. But you godda remember things like Bills posted to the sides of house cars as both advertisements and as car dedication to particular shippers. And they were usually tacked to the car at about where the Colorado Road rectangle would show up. I hazed the photo to make the cabooses stand out but looking at the untouched print I still can't positively identify a C&S herald.

Maybe Rick can tell you why cupolas moved to the end. He was a conductor for a few days as I recall.

As to two water tanks at Como, I use to know the story. And I ain't looking it up. But iirc the tank near the R-H was filled by a well or city water. The tank near the section house a mile south of the station was spring fed. One of them - I think the R-H tank wasn't so good at staying full. But maybe it was the spring tank. Anyway the first tank was the spring tank. I think it was because of its location away from the R-H that the new tank was built in 1891 (iirc). It probably supplied water to the R-H and shops which might also be why it wasn't an adequate source. anyway they kept the old tank. So Como had two tanks....

...where do you come up with questions like this?  

[Rick Steele]

Well, I'm gonna take a lot of this on. In a word, yes, it is an early C&S/DL&G Caboose. The slanted cupola is a dead giveaway.

What bothers me is that in the close up of the photo that the mountainous background continues through the side of the caboose. Are we looking at a double exposure here? Two photos taken of the same place at slightly different times, once while the caboose was there and once while it wasn't. Could explain the presence of the odd wheel.

Another discrepancy that I can see is that I cannot see the rear wheel of the caboose located anywhere near the rail that it is supposed to be riding on, not behind anybody's leg, no where. I've heard of Thunder Thighs before, but to completely obscure a truck, wheel and equalizer? If it is Buena Vista, and the track arrangement looks correct, but Gunnison had three parallel tracks like that as well, but let's suppose Buena Vista, if we are on 3' gauge track then where are the wheels of the caboose? If it is three-rail track, then where did that wide wheelset come from? Are we looking at a derailed caboose here? If so then why the double exposure?

Last but not least is the cupola. There are other photos of cabooses during the UP era (UP didn't call them "Waycars") that have cupolas. One is a Caboose that was taken as part of a shot of the Pacific Hotel after it burned. It is smokey but he cupola'd caboose shows clearly. There is also a shot of a bobber going down Ten Mile Canyon during the UP era that definitely shows a cupola. I have heard from some of the true believers that it was a D&RG caboose, but the window design and cupola configuration is definitely wrong for that railroad.

As for Derrell's question about Cupola Placement, the only thing that I can answer is that it was the Railroad's choice. Putting the Cupola on the end of the car rather than the middle gave the Railroad a lot more room to put in the Hopper, equipment lockers and benches for the crew to ride. Remember, back then there were usually four men on the train crew. Head Brakeman, Rear Brakeman and Swing Brakeman as well as the Conductor. The Swing man was called that because he moved between the Locomotive and the Caboose, wherever he was needed. Three men in a Bobber Caboose doesn't make for much manuvering room and is not too comfortable if one guy had Navy Beans and Broccoli for dinner. Besides one guy snoring loudly would keep the other two awake...

As for the two tanks at Como, the reasoning is actually obvious. The spring fed one was built when the Main Line was Denver to Gunnison. You stop and fill up on the way out of or into town. You run the locomotives a short distance toward Gunnison and fill up. The one behind the Roundhouse gained more importance as the Leadville Line became the main line and railroad was not reconfigured to reflect this change. With the Leadville Passenger and especially freight trains it was easier to fill up behind the Roundhouse before your turned the locomotives to go to Leadville, rather than running darned near out of the South end of town to get water. I can also imagine that it was put in for the convenience of the Shop Crews when more and more repair work was being done in Como.

There are photos of the old Como Tank Collapsed behind the Roundhouse, only to be replaced by a different one at a later date. In 1894 it shows two 15 x 24 tanks, The Roundhouse one shows filled by well and the other shows supplied by a pump.

Rick

[Robert McFarland]

Is  the Pacific photo the same as the one at the bottom of  p247 of Poors Memorial?Was it cropped?There is no rolling stock showing in the book photo.I found the Tenmile photo at  the bottom of p253 of the Memorial.

[Robert McFarland]

Looking at the photos  I believe that the BACKGROUND was probably taken near the C&S Buena Vista depot grounds looking roughly SW.You can see the county jail,and the building with the tower is not the couthouse,but another building with a tower in the west part of B.V.Reading the remarks from the back of the photo it sounds like the rest of the photo might have been taken in Como.

[Jim Courtney]

Another possibility is that the foreground (track, train, people) was taken at Pitkin, looking north from a position on the mainline just north of the depot.  Three-way stub in the distance creates a long 3 track yard, the stub turnout to the left could be the house rack to the depot.  In 1900, the elevated coaling dock hadn't been constructed yet.  The caboose 306 spent a lot of time on the Schwanders to Gunnison run judging by other photos.

[Derrell Poole]

Rick, Robert, Jim, apparently the first figure I posted with the cropped photo isn't clear enough. I thought it was but, well, I guess not.  Here it is again;

 
BACK OF PHOTO

In the upper left is a list of names apparently the gentlemen in the photo. among them is Curly Colligan, George Ross, and Mr. French. Then to the right; Sept. 21st 1900 Como Colo. Then bottom right to which I inserted a clarifying note it says Made from 2 negs. Background is Buena Vista Colo. No Pitkin. No Leadville. No question when it was taken.

You don't see the trees in the caboose on Jims copy because I am pretty sure I cleared that out in order to perpetuate the trick of the photo when I first posted it to a yahoo group several years ago - I think. Anyway I think Jim must have copied that post. Be sure your evil deeds will catch up with you, Derrell - good grief!

[Jim Courtney]

I need to pay very, very close attention to Derrell's posts!  Always some little devil in the details.

Too bad the photographer, O. Westerman, didn't live to see the digital age--he would have invented Photoshop and died a wealthy man.

[Robert McFarland]

"The Yellow Kid"-I thought that was a TOC newspaper cartoon character that ran around in his nightshirt all the time.Which one of those men is Curley Colligan?

[Rick Steele]

Robert,

Judging by the facial structure, I would make Curley out to be the man on the far right, standing on the caboose step.

But please don't ask me which ones are Moe, Larry or Shemp....

Rick

[Derrell Poole]

Well I stand accused -  and plead guilty as charged...

[Derrell Poole]

You found Moe Larry and Shimp at the C. City Depot - drinking soda pop... apparently.

[Robert McFarland]

Guilty of what?Providing "pop" for The Three Amigos(of Central City)?......................................Shemp will haunt you forever!!

[Derrell Poole]

I was born guilty, Robert. Ehhhh (shrugs)

One could do much worse to be haunted by Shemp - didn't he star in Ghostbusters?

[snapped_bolt]

 

   I really don't think that caboose is even there... in the enlargement, it seems some of the car lines are retouched (they are all the same width, and quite clear) however the fact that I can see mountains and trees right through the carbody (in the enlargement), what clearly appears to be one wheel in front of the platform steps, and no visible wheel on the far axle.... that could make this image one of the first cut-copy-paste jobs on the South Park!

    Cheers!

        Stan