Harp stand target colours?

[Keith Hayes]

Jeff:

Thank you for blowing the dust off this topic and burrowing into the details.

Given that railroad command and control systems are direct descendants of the US military, I am surprised at the varieties of shape and color.

I can only offer this excuse: each stand was painted and/ or modified to improve visibility for train crews at the particular location. A second differentiator may have been multiple turnouts in close proximity.

The one image, which appears to be modified, illustrates the need for contrasting colors on the targets. It is difficult to see the light portion of the target against the lake in the background. Similarly, it would be difficult to see a red or green target in the shadows of a canyon.

With everyone's help, it is becoming more apparent that the Clear Creek and South Park lines were individual and only mildly unified after the formation of the C&S at the TOC. This may also correspond with widespread adoption of rules pertaining to switch stand targets that persist today, with red or yellow for the diverging track and green for the main. Prior to the C&S, each line may have adhered to UP rules. Perhaps you should look there for some clues?

[Jeff Young]

I found a few UP harp stand pictures, but there are far fewer data points (and none at all from the 1880s, when no one appears to have taken any pictures of anything other than the Georgetown loop).  

The switch stands and targets generally follow the same evolution, which I must say I found surprising.  But with no data points from the period the UP had control of the CC, or influence over the DSP&P (via Jay Gould), I'm not sure it tells us anything.

1869, white & red (Promontory):


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/72177/rec/401


1869, white & red (Wasatch):


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/62076/rec/1502


~ 1870, white oblong with red(?) dot, short stands (Omaha):


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/71785/rec/72


~ 1875, white & red (Cheyenne):


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/68486/rec/67


1890 - 1910, Elliot (Denver paper mill):


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll21/id/3806/rec/5


1902, short Elliot (Laramie):


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/72177/rec/401

[Keith Hayes]

What about UP affiliate Utah Northern?

[Jim Courtney]

Jeff,

The short switchstand in the last photo looks near identical to the one in the 1905-06 Como photo:


http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/5116/rec/1

Even has the "tines" on top of the staff for a marker light.

Jim

[Chris Walker]

Two more variations but both on the opposition.

Cebolla

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll21/id/9675/rec/172

Salida,  apparently colours divided on the centreline as shown by rivet line.


http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll21/id/8203/rec/3

[Jeff Young]

> apparently colours divided on the centreline as shown by rivet line

There appears to be variation here.  Of the UP harps, the Promontory is divided on the centreline, while the Cheyenne appears to have a wider white side.

[Keith Hayes]

I am surprised that the harp base is painted white. Do we suppose this is for improved visibility (on non-snowy days), or to see premature metal failure (as with locomotive wheels)?

[Jim Courtney]

Likely, for improved visibility at night, so to not have trainmen trip over it on moonless nights.  Was it paint or whitewash do you think?

[Chris Walker]

Whitewash was everywhere here on NZR.

[Chris Walker]

Another Oddity: Downtown Golden.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/7002/rv/singleitem/rec/1293

[Jeff Young]

Right period for the red dots, but that's the first single I've seen (other than the single dot on an oblong target at Omaha).

[Robert McFarland]

I don't think that's a switch stand.

[Robert McFarland]

Looks like a hitching post.

[Jim Courtney]

Or a parking meter for horses.

[Keith Hayes]

Could it be a marker for a water meter or fire hydrant?

[Chris Walker]

Seriously?

If any of you have Colorado Central Rail Road by Abbott and McLeod try pg 38/39, or the same view reproduced in the CRRA Annual Ten - Narrow Gauge to Central and Silver Plume pg 92 taken from a little higher up above the Golden Roundhouse.  There by the Watertank is another single diamond with a dot Harp switchstand clearly shown.  The one I posted earlier is at the switch ahead of the Tank switch, the locations of both can be found on the Golden trackplans before the approach tracks to the Turntable were rearranged.

[Chris Walker]

Conclusive evidence of the beast! Idaho Springs mid-1880's.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/9818/rv/singleitem

[Jeff Young]

Nice find, Chris.  

It's been awhile since I've updated the list, so here it is in its current form:

C&S_Harp_stand_evolution.rtf

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Edit: document updated 16:06 31 Dec 2015.]

[Chris Walker]

Hidden in Plain Sight, again.

Jeff,

I had a few more written down for your list but can't find the piece of paper, duh!  Did you notice the variations in the two pictures?
Using the Sanborn Maps noting between the two pictures differences, it was easy to actually date the first one "closely" just prior to 1886.  Interesting how they came to change the Target there at that time.

1st view... http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/9818/rv/singleitem
2nd view...  http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/10189/rv/singleitem

[Bill Uffelman]

What is the number of the duckbilled car second from right in the second photo? I should know but can't recall and books are all in storage.

Thanks and Happy New Year.

Bill Uffelman Ocean View DE 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Chris Walker [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum]

<[hidden email]> wrote:

Jeff,

I had a few more written down for your list but can't find the piece of paper, duh!  Did you notice the variations in the two pictures?
Using the Sanborn Maps noting between the two pictures differences, it was easy to actually date the first one "closely" just prior to 1886.  Interesting how they came to change the Target there at that time.

1st view... http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/9818/rv/singleitem
2nd view...  http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/10189/rv/singleitem

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