Food for thought: Blackhawk ore/coal transfer

[Alex Hois]

Looking at a picture that Chris just posted in this NGDF thread got me thinking...
http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,314174

The track arrangement with the C&S/Gilpin Tram dual gauge in the middle, the Gilpin 2 ft level to the left and on a transfer trestle to the right is really interesting:
http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/70884/rv/singleitem/rec/22


It can be used for all kinds of transfers:
Obvious:
1: Ore or gravel from Gilpin on the right to C&S in the middle by gravity

Likely
2: Coal from C&S in the middle to Gilpin on the left by shovel. The then empty C&S car could have been used for 1.
3: Mine props or other things from a C&S gondola to Gilpin on the left, the then empty C&S car could have been used for 1.

Less likely:
4: Ore by shovel from C&S in the middle to Gilpin on the left for processing in a mill served only by the Gilpin tram
5: Boxcar or flatcar loads from C&S to Gilpin on the left. This would tie up the track, I bet there were others in the Blackhawk yard to do that.
6: Coal from Gilpin car (see 2) on the trestle to Gilpin engine on the middle track


Obscure:
7: Ore from Gilpin to Gilpin. Why?

What are your thoughts on that? Are there photos or shipping list examples on any one of those possibilities?

The dual gauge track in the middle would also allow Gilpin engines to respot C&S cars under the transfer trestle.
Did Gilpin engines ever move C&S cars?

Let's see where this goes...
Alex

[Jeff Young]

Love the elevated harp stand!

[Jim Courtney]

Also note the St Charles coal car spotted below the tipple (# 4053?), still with the original end stakes. Number 4053 would have been a 3-board high car.

Once you start looking for them, the St Charles coal cars start popping up everywhere!

The transfer of coal from 3' C&S cars to 2' Gilpin coal cars may have been done on adjacent sidings just north of the elevated ore tipple:



(Sorry, I don't remember from where I downloaded this image)


An enlargement shows a C&S St Charles coal car, but likely another 3-board tall car built for the UPD&G in 1897 and 1898, later C&S numbers 4000-4085:




Note the Gilpin "high side gons" on the near track.

Can anyone identify the C&S coal car to the left frame? Is it really diagonally braced or is that just an optical delusion from flaws in the negative?


Opposite the shed in the middle of the lower part of the image is a coal laden Peninsular coal car waiting for its load to be transferred to a Gilpin gon:




Chris needs to weigh in here, he must have more images of this area. I'll look for more images as well.

Jim

[Jim Courtney]

Another image, with yet another St Charles coal car, ready for loading with Gilpin ore:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/78520/rv/singleitem/rec/372


Love the barn to the left of Clear Creek.


Then there is this image:


Ronzio collection in Abbot and McCoy, The Gilpin Railroad Era, page 225.

A Gilpin load of ore is on the tipple, but no C&S car is spotted below for loading. Perhaps if a brakeman released the hand brakes on the string of C&S coal cars in the foreground, they could be moved down grade by gravity for loading. To the left is a string of at least eight Gilpin cars loaded with ore, bound for who knows where.

Jim

[Ron Rudnick]

Now that I can see again, yes that is a coal car with diagonal bracing.  
A similar car lettered UPD&G can be seen in the New York Mill photo on p.47 of the Gilpin Gold Tram.
As to the source of the car unknown.  

[Jim Courtney]

Another interesting thing that I just noticed:

The inside Gilpin 3rd rail is on the right side of the dual gauge track on the S-curve to the top right of the Polar Star mill. At the bottom left, this side of the Polar Star near the tipple, the inside Gilpin 3rd rail is on the left side of the dual gauge track.

Somewhere behind the Polar Star mill, there must be a pair of points and switch stands to allow the 2 foot gauge to cross over from side to side. Perhaps one of them is located just this side of the small shed just above the Polar Star roof.

Staring at old photos can be fascinating, huh!

Jim

[Chris Walker]

Jim,
there was a Draw(no switchstands though) located between the switches of the Lower Switchback and the Siding for the Polar Star Mill and Transfer Chutes.  This is visible on pg235 in Gilpin Railroad Era book by Abbott/McCoy Sundance Publications.  The Draw was located at the location of the City Water Co's Overhead Pipe http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/A-bad-day-in-Black-Hawk-or-how-I-lost-my-head-td1045.html

Another pair of views of those diagonal braced coalcars...


DPL L-2  
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/70905/rv/singleitem/rec/2



X-2007
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/78689/rv/singleitem/rec/16

[Ron Rudnick]

Chris  

The diagonal braced coal cars in the Jackson Blackhawk yard photo was taken in the 1870's and are Colorado Central drop-bottom coal cars, built by Litchfield circa 1874.
They are different than the one seen in the New York Mill photo
Ron