DSP&P #191

[Alan Olson]

I am involved in giving the DL&G #191 at the CRRM some "sprucing up" before the DSP&P convention. I have heard that there is a photo in a Mac Poor book of DSP&P #191 painted black. Does anyone here know what book that would be or if the #191 was ever painted black with DSP&P lettering?

thanks, Alan

[Robert McFarland]

Consider the painting on the dust cover of Colorado Rail Annual 12.I think B&L had a colorized issue which had an article dealing with DSP&P loco paint jobs.Don't forget the Russia Iron boiler jacket.

[Todd Hackett]

Alan,

The "Mac Poor book" is "Denver South Park & Pacific" published in 1949 by the Rocky Mountain Railroad Club. There was also a Memorial Edition published in 1976 after Mac Poor died. The Memorial Edition has a few different photos, but is mostly the same. The only photo of #191 listed in the index is an early photo as #51 at the Palisades, and I don't know how one could tell whether it's painted black or green from the photo. The photo is on page 226 of both editions.

As 191 was a UP number from 1885, it would only have been on the locomotive after it was re-lettered, and therefore re-painted, so the locomotive was probably only painted black with that number (although the boiler jacket could have been unpainted planished iron), and if it had DSP&P on it with that number, it would just have been small printing on the cab (basically the same as the DL&G lettering). Either lettering is probably appropriate for the locomotive in its current state (i.e. with paneled cab, air pump, and Congdon stack).

[Randy Rieck]

Hi Alan,

I don't know about Mac Poor but there is a picture on page 225 of the South Park Line by Ferrell.
The picture shows 191 in the back ground behind Mason Bogie 46.  The Bogie is lettered DSP&P
on the cab side. The picture was taken in 1885 which ties into Todd Hackett's comments about the
repainting.  It is hard to know if the engines are painted black or some other color.

Please let me know when you start the project so I may help.

[ComoDepot]

Would be nice to borrow it sometime....

[Alan Olson]

I strongly agree!

[Robert McFarland]

I don't think it would fit in your garage.

[ComoDepot]

Might fit outside my Depot?

[Alan Olson]

I can clearly picture #191 in front of your depot while it is visiting Como. Or on the turntable. This is not out of the realm of possibilities.

[ComoDepot]

Maybe one day, we can dream.

[South Park]

  Hold a Black Locomotives Matter rally !  

[Paul R.]

Maybe a cut and paste will do meanwhile, would make a nice Photo, Photoshop experts needed. Paul R.

[Robert McFarland]

I believe they've already done some  photoshopped  scenes with 191.Why not one at the depot.Why not a family reunion of C&S locos at Como like the RGS Geese reunion a couple of years ago?

[South Park]

  I have often wondered (never asked him myself), why it was Uncle Bob
chose Golden as the site of the CRRM when he moved from Alamosa ?

  I always presumed it was to be closer to a poplation center for traffic to
support the museum ?  The way this question came into my head though,
was thinking about Como and what a perfect set up it was/is for a railroad
museum.  With it's in-place history and surviving buildings, it has always
been "a natural" (except for it's remoteness to a large population center).

  Did anyone here ever catch an earful from Uncle Bob on his reasoning
on this ?

[ComoDepot]

We are only an hour from the edge of Denver but probably was looking at a more year round attraction?

[Rich Townsend]

I read in the Gazette as I recall that he left Alamosa because he needed a longer season that winters there afforded him. He considered Como but it was no better, weatherwise.

[skip]

South Park wrote

I have often wondered (never asked him myself), why it was Uncle Bob
chose Golden as the site of the CRRM when he moved from Alamosa ?

I never asked, but remember that Bob's "living" then was the Iron Horse Motel first in Alamosa and then in Golden. I think that he got both enough space there for both the motel and the collection as well as having good demographics for a Motel. I remember trips down to Denver as a boy and badgering my Dad to stay out in Golden at the Iron Horse Motel so I could see the trains. I have always suspected that this was really the reason for doing my undergrad work at the Colorado School of Mines rather than some lofty pursuit of an engineering education.
Skip Egdorf

[Fatbiker52]

Como Depot:

Yes!! Lol. When is the rally going take place? Should we all wear grimy black to show our support? Meet a the CRRM?
Fred

[nedsn3]

Years ago, in the early '90's (somehow that doesn't seem that long ago), I got involved with repairing the windows on B-1 at Alamosa, and met the gal (quite beautiful incidentally, cough, cough) who was the head of the local Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber had their HQ in the replica station then located next to 168/B-1. She was interested in starting some kind of tourist line, or something in Alamosa maybe using 168 and maybe B-1. I fixed B-1's windows and a few weeks later approached "Uncle" Bob at CRRM. At the mention of Alamosa he went off! He didn't even want to consider helping the city. He indicated that he'd tried to do something before and met nothing but resistance. He must have had some very very bad experiences dealing with the city, and especially mentioned the railroad unions that he hated dealing with. I think that plus his relationship with Carl Heflin had gone sour resulted in his leaving Alamosa. I suspect that Como, at the time, was too remote, and so he settled on the present location. I don't pretend to know him really at all, but that was my abbreviated experience. Ned