Conx 5

[jim pallow]

    Conoco tank car #5 was built fairly early.  Does anyone know/theorize what happened to it when the C&S abandoned the NG? JP

[Jim Courtney]

In this 1935 A. A. Anderson photo from the Klingers' Gunnison Division Memories . . ., page 72, CONX 5 was pretty messed up in this wreck on the Fairplay branch.





I've always assumed that CONX 5 survived in Leadville service until standard gauging in 1943, but is that true? I mean that wood underframe has several broken sills.  Was it repaired and put back in service?

[Chris Walker]

At Leadville in 1941....
http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Any-oil-depots-on-the-High-Line-Denver-Leadville-tp3667p3680.html

I guess they found another unemployed Flatcar....


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/43086/rv/singleitem/rec/1886

[jim pallow]

   The 1935 photo shows no deck.  Now I have to go check the other photos in my books because I could have swore it had a full flat car deck. Good photo, thanks, and yes, I believe that flat was probably "retired".   JP

[Jim Courtney]

CONX 6 (a sister car to CONX 5??) also ran on a deckles flat car frame in 1940:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/61377/rv/singleitem/rec/15



http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/61378/rv/singleitem/rec/20



Looks similar if not identical to the frame under the wrecked CONX 5.

Derrell Poole, in the Narrow Gauge Pictorial VIII, says that CONX 5 was built on an old St Charles flat car, that was originally one of the 1899 St Charles coal cars with the sides removed.  But maybe that was true only after the 1935 wreck.

Is it possible that CONX 5 was originally built for Conoco by the D&RGW in the early/mid 1920s, transferred to the C&S for service, then acquiring it's C&S style flat car with St Charles trucks only in the last few years? That would explain why CONX 5 was the only black Conoco tank car to ride on a boxcar red flat car underframe--the C&S didn't bother to paint the old St Charles flat/coal car frame to match the tank when they rebuilt it.

If so, then all the kits of CONX 5, produced over the years in multiple scales, are only correct for the car in service from rebuilding in c1936 until 1943 when the Climax line was standard gauged.

[Jim Courtney]

An example of answering one's own question, because you didn't stop to think it through the first time!

Another view of the 1935 wreck of CONX 5:


Clair Dungan Collection in the Klingers' Platte Canon Memories . . . , page 237.


CONX 5 clearly has an "Alamosa" weight on the side, implying it was originally converted to a narrow gauge tank car for Conoco by the D&RGW.  Later photos of CONX 5 in Leadville service, after rebuilding, show a "Denver" weight on the side under the reporting marks.

The better view of the frame without deck, just doesn't look "C&S".  If anything, the buffer block on the near end looks like that of a D&RGW 6000 series flat car.

And re-examining the photo of CONX 6 above, the wheel base of the trucks looks kinda short, like maybe D&RG 3'-6" freight trucks?  So, if CONX 5 was originally built as a Conoco tank car in, say 1924, by the D&RGW, did it ride around the South Park on D&RGW short wheel base trucks until the C&S had to build a new underframe for it after the 1935 wreck??

As to Jim's original question that began the thread, I have no idea what happened to CONX 5 after the Climax run was standard gauged. Sorry about the digression.

[Jim Courtney]

Okay, just to complete the thoughts about CONX 5 and its two underframes:



Gerald Best collection, California State Railroad Museum, in Narrow Gauge Pictorial VIII, page 105.


This Leadville photo, dated July 14, 1939, shows CONX 5 as we all have come to know her, riding on a St Charles flat car (former coal car), with the distinctive St Charles 4'-0" trucks. The flat car, as Jim related, is fully decked. The holes for the stake pockets for the original St Charles coal car stakes are clearly visible.

The reweigh date on the black tank is a "Denver" reweigh, dated 12-34. That suggests that the wreck of CONX 5 on the Fairplay-Alma branch happened earlier, say 1933 or earlier in 1934, not in 1935. The original underframe, possibly from a D&RGW 6000 flat car, was so damaged as to be scrapped and the tank body mounted on the old C&S flat car by the Denver shops.

Makes a good story, that fits together, even if it is not true!

[Chris Walker]

Jim,
I echo your missive that the Flat was a PH1 Coalcar.  Just why they added the irregular spaced stake pockets is anyones guess, however they were consistant with the pattern repeated on the opposite side.

Brilliant.

[jim pallow]

Tanks for the interest and photos!  I do believe the truck wheelbase in the earlier views is noticeably shorter so it could be a modified D&RGW flat. I also agree that the after wreck is an old C&S coal gon frame.  After 1943 it probably went to scrappers heaven. JP

[Keith Hayes]

I am wrapping up my model of the car,  build of the kit originally made by Triangle,  I think, and now available from Weissman. This is a wood craftsman kit with a cast urethane tank. For old-timers, it is a standard build and just this side of scratch building in the context of new kits.

The project has been mostly done for several years now, but some details linger, like the tank bands that secure the tank to the flat car. The real bands are bar stock with a 'U' bracket bolted at the end that connects to the threaded ends for the bolted connection below the floor. I fabricated the bands from some brass bar stock and soldered short lengths of wire on th ends. These are painted black and ready to install. But I got to looking at the image Jim posted. And I saw the streaking. Come on! Ya got to do the streaks!

So I pondered this and was going to do this with a thin layer of white paint. But I was worried about loosing control and elected to use Pan Pastels instead. I masked off the edge of the letters to match th photo. All went well until I went to remove the tape: in spite of a few dusting of enamel gloss cote, some of the decals peeled, and I had to touch up the lettering.

On to the straps!

[Doug Heitkamp]

Hi Folks,

Thought I would share a few pictures on an On3 CONX 5 I built a few years ago. This model took 3rd place in the Freight Car category at a past NNGC. Don't mind the missing retainer valve....









Thanks for looking!

[Jim Courtney]

Beautiful model, Doug!!

[Lee Gustafson]

Doug,

Beautiful model congratulations on its contest award. Can you give us any construction details? Again, thanks for posting photos of your model.

Lee Gustafson

[Jeff Young]

Outstanding!

[Doug Heitkamp]

Here is a partial view of CONX 5 in 1941. Note that the entire car is now painted black. I remember reading that Conoco did this for that uniform company look or branding.




I believe this picture was printed in one of the Sundance books or calendars they once produced. I'll wager that this is the final look of CONX 5. We have:

1) Built on a deck-less D&RGW frame. Painted all black????
2) Tank place on a C&S Type I Coal Car frame, with decking. Car painted red, tank painted black.
3) Same as #2, now painted all black in late 30's/early 40's

[Doug Heitkamp]

Here are some details about my On3 model:

The tank is brass and was sold by Tomalco years ago as a complete assembly - tank, hand rails, dome, and drain valve. It's really a nice piece if you can find one. They are pretty rare now. It was painted with Scalecoat paint and lettered with Thin-film decals.

The car body was scratch built per Derrell Poole plans for the Type I Coal Cars. I milled all the basswood to the proper sizes and drilled holes using jigs I made from styrene. All of the deck boards have a wide groove milled on the underside, per the prototype. Look at the picture of CONX 5 coupled to the Coal Car above. You'll see that the deck boards are not shiplapped. The brake gear is all Grandt line castings and brass wire. The trucks were made by a company called Portland Products. He did a lot of Sandy River parts in various scales but also made the brass On3 sprung 4' wheelbase trucks used on the C&S. He passed away years ago and I have not seen any of those truck in over 20 years. The bolster was a white metal casting made by Derrell and was sold as part of his Colorado and Southern Connection line of parts, plans, and car kits.

I was finishing this model right up to the time I left for the convention. That's why the retainer valve is missing as well as a few grab irons on the end sills. The model was built for a customer and delivered after the convention. Sadly he sold it shortly afterwards. I believe it went to somebody in Canada, but I really have no idea where it is now. Oops, I shouldn't have done that!

[Lee Gustafson]

Doug,

Thank you for the build information on your CONX 5 tank car. The attention to detail, care and effort you put in the model are evident. I hope the owner realizes the quality of model they have. Again, thank you for sharing. Take care and best wishes.

Lee Gustafson