Como roundhouse pits

[Lee Gustafson]

If this question has been asked and answered before my apologies in advance as well as I should know the answer but don't. How many of the original Como round house stalls had pits? Thanks in advance.

Lee Gustafson

[Lee Gustafson]

I may have answered my own question but I'd like confirmation, were the pits an average of 50 feet long and ended about 5 feet 6 inches from the back wall? I also believe all six of the original stalls had pits. Confirmation or correction appreciated. Thanks.

Lee Gustafson

[Rick Steele]

Hi Lee,

The valuation sketch shows the roundhouse actually being built in 4 separate sections. There are the original 6 stalls of masonry and 13 of wood frame, painted outside. All woodwork in masonry walls painted inside. It shows portion no. 2 as being 5 stalls, portion number 3 being 6 stalls and portion number 4 being 2 stalls.

The difference, I think is the difference in the outside cladding and the floors.

Part 4 shows a floor of 2" plank on est. 4 x 6 @ 2' centers - no pits.

floor #3 = dirt
floor #2 = dirt
floor #1 of 2" on 4x6 @ 30" centers
Boiler room = dirt floor

Are you aware that there was an office in the corner of the Roundhouse?

The valuation shows 12 Engine pits. However the stalls that have them (there were 19 stalls when the valuation was done) are not enumerated.

The pits show as the following

12 engine pits. 2-3 x 38' x 2-5 + 3-2 deep.
    cross sect. est. thns. - rgh rubble wall. est com. exc.

There is a rough cross section drawing showing a 12 x 12 piece of lumber mounted horizontally on top of a 12" x 2'6" (base) riser. It shows a floor of 2" rough plank.

Todd Hackett did a really nice drawing of the Roundhouse when it was being redone as far as the stalls and stall locations go.

Later in the valuation it shows each pit having 10' of 6" vitreous pipe in a 4" trench for drainage.

* Water + wash out pipe.-
    1 riser 6' of 2" wrought iron pipe 1 galvanized 4 fittings

3 connections each or 24' of 2" wrought iron pipe
    1 gate, 4 fittings. - intr. (interior?)
1 riser 6' of 2" wroughe iron pipe, 3 fittings
   main, under floor - 3 80' 9(?) of 3" wrought iron pipe

Heating, - in round house outofuse, - not connected
  1 coil 9 pcs  - 1 1/4" wrought Iron Pipe x 20' long
     9 fittings
  2' of 1" wrought Iron pipe  - 1 galvanized, 2 fittings
  3' of 1/2" wrought iron pipe - 1 galvanized, 1 fitting

* on Wash out system.
  1 steam pump - horizontal duplex
  Knowles 8x5x12 with fittings said to be owned by the city of Como
  foundation - concrete pier - tip 2' x 5' 4 sides 1:6
  batt top to floor  = 2' to bottom ext. 3-6
  exhaust. - 20' of 1 1/2" wrought Iron pipe.

This does show some interesting dichotomies, though. It shows the length of the stone portion of the Roundhouse as 56'5". It shows the length of the wooden portions as 60' (interior lengths, perhaps?). It also shows the section width on the face of stone portion as being 14' (between each angle) but on the wooden portion it shows a flat surface between door posts  of 12'.

Another hint. When you see a hyphenated dimension, it is feet and inches as far as I can figure out, so the pits would be 38 feet each, not 50. But remember, this inventory was what was visible to C. L. Dimmer from the ICC, not what was hidden by floor or filled in (I understand that stall 1 in the masonry section was the machine shop, so its pit would have been filled and covered). However, no machinery shows up in the inventory of the roundhouse contents., just lockers, a desk and lots of benches.

Since section 4 shows no pits and there were three escape (through) tracks shown going through section 2, that would pretty much eliminate 5 pits. IF stall 1 in the masonry section was filled in and planked over that would eliminate another for a total of 6. The next missing pit is anybody's guess.

Hope that this confuses you as much as the rest of us.

Rick

[Lee Gustafson]

Hi Rick,

Thank you ever so much for the response and information. I need to study and process this information as it does present dichotomies that confuse me. As with many DSP&P/C&S items, the research and information can lead to speculation and interpretation if not out right confusion. I may come back to you in a few days with some questions regarding this information as I process it. Again, thanks ever so much for this information and contributions to the group. Take care and best wishes.

Lee Gustafson

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Steele [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]>
To: Lee Gustafson <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2015 4:43 pmAs 
Subject: Re: Como roundhouse pits

Hi Lee,

The valuation sketch shows the roundhouse actually being built in 4 separate sections. There are the original 6 stalls of masonry and 13 of wood frame, painted outside. All woodwork in masonry walls painted inside. It shows portion no. 2 as being 5 stalls, portion number 3 being 6 stalls and portion number 4 being 2 stalls.

The difference, I think is the difference in the outside cladding and the floors.

Part 4 shows a floor of 2" plank on est. 4 x 6 @ 2' centers - no pits.

floor #3 = dirt
floor #2 = dirt
floor #1 of 2" on 4x6 @ 30" centers
Boiler room = dirt floor

Are you aware that there was an office in the corner of the Roundhouse?

The valuation shows 12 Engine pits. However the stalls that have them (there were 19 stalls when the valuation was done) are not enumerated.

The pits show as the following

12 engine pits. 2-3 x 38' x 2-5 + 3-2 deep.
    cross sect. est. thns. - rgh rubble wall. est com. exc.

There is a rough cross section drawing showing a 12 x 12 piece of lumber mounted horizontally on top of a 12" x 2'6" (base) riser. It shows a floor of 2" rough plak.

Todd Hackett did a really nice drawing of the Roundhouse when it was being redone as far as the stalls and stall locations go.

Later in the valuation it shows each pit having 10' of 6" vitreous pipe in a 4" trench for drainage.

* Water + wash out pipe.-
    1 riser 6' of 2" wrought iron pipe 1 galvanized 4 fittings

3 connections each or 24' of 2" wrought iron pipe
    1 gate, 4 fittings. - intr. (interior?)
1 riser 6' of 2" wroughe iron pipe, 3 fittings
   main, under floor - 3 80' 9(?) of 3" wrought iron pipe

Heating, - in round house outofuse, - not connected
  1 coil 9 pcs  - 1 1/4" wrought Iron Pipe x 20' long
     9 fittings
  2' of 1" wrought Iron pipe  - 1 galvanized, 2 fittings
  3' of 1/2" wrought iron pipe - 1 galvanized, 1 fitting

* on Wash out system.
  1 steam pump - horizontal duplex
  Knowles 8x5x12 with fittings said to be owned by the city of Como
  foundation - concrete pier - tip 2' x 5' 4 sides 1:6
  batt top to floor  = 2' to bottom ext. 3-6
  exhaust. - 20' of 1 1/2" wrought Iron pipe.

This does show some interesting dichotomies, though. It shows the length of the stone portion of the Roundhouse as 56'5". It shows the length of the wooden portions as 60' (interior lengths, perhaps?). It also shows the section width on the stone portion as being 14' (between each angle) but on the wooden portion it shows a flat surface between door posts  of 12'.

Hope that this confuses you as much as the rest of us.

Rick

---

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Como-roundhouse-pits-tp3523p3530.html

To unsubscribe from Como roundhouse pits, click here.
NAML

[Lee Gustafson]

Hi Rick,

I'm confused about,  "floor #1 of 2" on 4x6 @ 30" centers" I assume this means the original six stall stone portion had 2" planks on 30" centers but I'm confused by the 4x6 term.  Next "12 engine pits. 2-3 x 38' x 2-5 + 3-2 deep" this I assume means the pits were 38 feet long and the depth was 3-2 feet deep. Correct?  Last where can I find the Todd Hackett drawing of the roundhouse as it  was being redone? Thank you.

Lee Gustafson

[Bill Uffelman]

4 x6 are sleepers laid on the ground atv30" centers and 2" thick planks for flooring.

Pits are 38' long 2'6" wide and 3'2" deep.

Bill Uffelman 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

---

From:"Lee Gustafson [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum]" <[hidden email]>
Date:Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 2:52 PM
Subject:Re: Como roundhouse pits

Hi Rick,

I'm confused about,  "floor #1 of 2" on 4x6 @ 30" centers" I assume this means the original six stall stone portion had 2" planks on 30" centers but I'm confused by the 4x6 term.  Next "12 engine pits. 2-3 x 38' x 2-5 + 3-2 deep" this I assume means the pits were 38 feet long and the depth was 3-2 feet deep. Correct?  Last where can I find the Todd Hackett drawing of the roundhouse as it  was being redone? Thank you.

Lee Gustafson

---

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Como-roundhouse-pits-tp3523p3599.html

To start a new topic under C&Sn3 Discussion Forum, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from C&Sn3 Discussion Forum, click here.
NAML

[Lee Gustafson]

Bill,

Thanks. That makes sense. Most appreciated.

Lee

[SteveG]

Hi Rick,
I'm curious about the valuation sketch you reference--is that generally available? I'd ordered the valuation maps  from the CCRM, but they appear to be the same as what's in Blazek's Como notebook, and other published sources of which I'm aware.
I'm especially curious as to when the various segments of the roundhouse extensions were built? I notice in the 1905 photo below (from CRA 12 and the Mineral Belt volume 2) there are two engines (67 and another) sitting alongside the end of wooden extension on trackage that was either roofed over in the last extension, or is otherwise not shown on the 1918 valuation?

Any insights appreciated!
Steve

[Chris Walker]

http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Help-dating-a-photo-of-Dickey-tp4645p4659.html

[Jeff Ramsey]

Rick. The ICC field notes that you transcribed were for ICC Engineering Field Notes I assume. I would love if someday someone found the ICC C&S account 44 for not just the Como but all the sections for the C&S. Account 44 would list machinery that was in the roundhouse.  Account 45 would be interesting also. CRRM has these accounts for the D&RG but unfortunately not so for the C&S.
The subjects of the different ICC valuation accounts are as such :
INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSION PRIMARY ACCOUNTS

1 Engineering maps and profiles
2 Land
3 Grading
4 ???
5 Tunnels and Subways
6 Bridges, trestles and culverts
7 Elevated Structures
8 Ties
9 Rails
10 Other Track Material
11 Ballast
12 Tracklaying and Surfacing
13 Right-of-way fences now Fences, snowsheds and signs
14 Snow and sand fences and snowsheds
15 Crossings and Signs
16 Station and Office Buildings
17 Roadway Buildings
18 Water Stations
19 Fuel Stations
20 Shops and engine houses
21 Grain elevators
22 Storage warehouses
23 Wharves and docks
24 Coal and ore wharves
25 Gas-producing plants now TOFC/COFC terminals
26 Telegraph and telephone lines now Communication systems
27 Signals and Interlockers
28 ???
29 Power-plant buildings now Power plants
30 Power-substation buildings
31 Power-transmission systems
32 Power-distribution systems
33 Power-line poles and fixtures
34 Underground conduits
35 Miscellaneous structures
36 Paving
37 Roadway machines
38 Roadway small tools
39 Public improvements-construction
40 Thru 42 ????
43 Other expenditures; road
44 Shop machinery
45 Power-plant machinery
46 Power-substation apparatus
47 ???
48 thru 50 Not used
51 Steam locomotives
52 Other locomotives
53 Freight-train cars
54 Passenger-train cars
55 Motor equipment of cars
56 Floating equipment
57 Work equipment
58 Miscellaneous equipment
59 Thru 70 Not used
71 Organization expenses
72 General officers and clerks
73 Law
74 Stationery and printing
75 Taxes
76 Interest during construction
77 Other expenditures, general

 

[Todd Hackett]

Lee Gustafson wrote

...where can I find the Todd Hackett drawing of the roundhouse...

I didn't make the drawing - it was drawn by Greg Kazel. Greg and I surveyed the area by setting up a transit on the turntable bridge at the center of the pit (this was when the turntable was sitting in the pit, but before the pit was cleared or the turntable was restored). We shot angles and measured distances to building corners, and corners of each pit that we could find. The AutoCAD file is dated July 1994, so this survey would have been sometime before that. This is a capture from a PDF I made of from the AutoCAD file about seven years ago:

[Lee Gustafson]

Todd,

Thank you ever so much. The information is very useful. Thanks to everyone on the forum it’s a great resource.

Lee Gustafson

[Jeff Ramsey]

Tried to do the same thing a year or so ago. Could not for the life of me level the instrument?? duh Turntable tilts

[ComoDepot]

Do we have a date for the first extension?

[Jeff Ramsey]

1886 I guess first 2 additions = first extension.