C&S Coal Gates

[Mike Trent]

Basically, all South Park/C&S Engines from Mason Bogies to the big 2-10-2 900's used wood boards to retain coal in the bunkers. The narrow gauge engines used 2x6's between the water legs of the cisterns. They were held in place by cast retainers bolted through the water legs. The upper part of  the coal gate is the pallet-like object you see in pictures either in place or in the bunker or behind the bunker. These gates were made of 2x4's and held in place at the front of the bunkers by an L shaped iron brace bolted to the steel boxes that support the side sheets of the bunker. At the bottom, they rested on the water legs above the lower 2x6's. They usually were  formed by four horizontal 2x4's and two vertical 2x4's. I have used single NBW lag bolts through the vertical posts with the bolts on the Vertical boards facing forward. The four horizontal boards are usually 2-3" apart, depending on the verticle measurement.

Because the tenders and the support boxes varied in width, the 2x4's had to fit whatever that distance was. The height of these upper gates was determined by the height of the boxes, which usually extended just above the side sheets. The only coal gates that are the same for me are #71 and #72, which have identical tenders, and the moguls, which also share the same dimensions with each other. So most every gate is made for a particular engine.

The B-4-F's are all different. #75 is pretty normal made in the same way I described above. #74 is actually six boards high because one of the cast retainers was broken and the upper gate extends down between the water legs where the upper 2x6 of the three is missing. #76's gate is also completely different because the support boxes are shorter than the side sheets and mounted sideways. This means that the 2x4's are mounted touching each other and the gate is both shorter in length and width. Being smaller, it is usually stored leaning between the rear of the bunker and water hatch as pictured below. I'm not sure how PBL made the tenders on the B-4-F's. So the coal gates may have to be fitted in the "Normal" way described here.

I prefer to use loose coal loads (Crushed Dickey coal, of course) so to retain the coal, I usually set a piece of styrene painted flat black behind the 2X6's at the bottom. This is evident in the photo of #9 below: RATS!!! The #9 is upside down! How did that happen? I deleted it and reinserted it and it's still upside down. Thanks, Jim, for fixing that.

#74:


#76:


#75:


#60 and #71:

[Jim Courtney]

RATS!!! The #9 is upside down! How did that happen? I deleted it and reinserted it and it's still upside down.


Must be Chris, turning things upside down for better viewing in New Zealand .

Here you go:

[Chris Walker]

Jim Courtney wrote

RATS!!! The #9 is upside down! How did that happen? I deleted it and reinserted it and it's still upside down.


Must be Chris, turning things upside down for better viewing in New Zealand .

I really appreciate the efforts you go to, for me!

My turn.

[Mike Trent]

Any time, Chris! Excellent find. That one must have gone down through the water legs too.  

[Mike Trent]

Thanks, Jim. We must have something of a glitch somewhere.

[Chris Walker]

Mike Trent wrote

Any time, Chris! Excellent find. That one must have gone down through the water legs too.

At least I didn't rag you for the sudden stop of the #9, never seen anyone pull apart a Loco, usually it's the train that parts.   And yeah, I even did that once!

[Mike Trent]

It was both a good and ironic move. After all I did to try to make #9 right, you come up with that picture that shows that particular gate substitutes for the missing upper 2X6. I've been thinking about that this afternoon, though, and have taken note that the models were made using photos and measurements of all kinds of details of #9. So on display in South Dakota, the brackets were all in proper place. so the unusual gate on #9 would have been temporary. But it's a great detail and part of the story. I doubt #74's missing bracket was ever replaced, though. None of the brackets are there today. The RGS would have taken all of that stuff off when they put in new steel coal doors in Ridgway.

[Keith Hayes]

Here is the coal board sprue in S that Norm created the model for.

The wood model I created for 75 is leaning against the tender.

[Mike Trent]

Nice! Looks like the Gremlins from Down Under are back. Looks good, though. Will these fit #74 and #76?

[Chris Walker]

I feel for ya Keith, I really do

ps really enjoying the Detail content here.  & Don't forget your Flagon of Hooch.

[Keith Hayes]

I am sorry about the upside down images fellas. I flipped my phone over to get the lens lower, and it is like the JPG has a weight in it and flips over here on the forum.

Norm built the part out of a bunch of 2x4s. I tried to add NBW detail, but it didn't come out in S. Norm, did it come out in O? It would be easy enough to clip boards off and make different versions. There are six parts to a sprue. This is the first time I have ordered a part in the tan plastic, and I have to say in the raw it could pass for wood.

Speaking of hooch, I don't know where I heard this, but it makes sense to me. I believe the South Platte follows the County line between Jefferson and Douglas Counties. Once in the canyon, it is remote and the thought occured to me that it would be a fine place to set up a still. Especially if you were friends with the train crew, and could set out a flag and gently place a couple gallon jugs on the deck as the Passenger slowly ambled past. Empties could come back the same way.

Just sayin.

[Norm Acker]

Hi Keith, they turned out really well, thanks again! The hardware is just tiny bumps but a dab with a little black/rust with a microbrush should work just fine. I painted one with Camouflage Tan and washed it with India ink & alcohol and followed with some black chalk and Dullcote. It's on top of my 9's half-empty coal load for the time being and looks great even though it's not right.

I made the mistake of creating a spreadsheet with all the project tasks for my layout that I'd like to complete for the next five to ten years - there are 27 line items, oof! I have so many simultaneous things going on (don't we all?) that I have to occasionally count fewer rivets and focus on scenery, hidden tracks, electronics, lighting, benchwork - well, we all know how that goes. :)

So these will be a great placeholder for someday when I find the time to superdetail my locomotive fleet.

And for some reason the screw end on the flue reamer feels like a challenge to me, so I might go grab my OptiViewers and a jeweler's anvil and see if I can get my eyes crossed up real good just for a break from benchwork sawdust and homasote... :D

[Norm Acker]

And back to the topic at hand...

I found this 2004 picture of the interesting setup 60 has for her lower coal gates.

[Mike Trent]

Hi Norm. The only tender detail of the lower coal boards (2X6's) in any of my engines are the Overland B-4-E's and B-3-C's.I normally use weathered 2X6's glued in place. Mine are all vertical. Note in your picture the flange plate welded to the Locker Box above the water leg. That flange, and the one on the opposite side are what holds the upper coal gate in place. Since we are seeing that here, next time you are up with #60, there in about a 3/4" hole drilled in the overhead rack over the coal gate. There would have been a bolt dropped into a hole in the top of the coal gate to keep it from falling backward. I have not included that on any of mine. It's nice that #60 is available to see, and untampered with. It also still has the curtain rods in place which prove that the curtains did not run side to side on C&S engines. We discussed this a long time ago, and I'm sure you can find that thread with a search. Chris Walker found a lot of photos and posted them. Maybe that could be #28 on your list! The narrow slots on the water leg next to somebody's leg are for safety chains that connected the tender to the cab to help keep the fireman on deck as he worked.  

[tonyk375]

#9 has the same layout for the lower boards

[Chris Walker]

I was being slightly facetious refering to the Flagon of hooch.
As according to footplate stories told to me years ago, it was not unexpected to find a flagon in the coalpile on the mainline Shunt trains run out of our country Depot.
 
Being mostly of British ancestry down here us Loco crews carried a Teapot(I never saw coffee on the footplate), so I got to wondering was this Coffee to be reheated in a mug or is it the ration of Valveoil the Driver drew down before the run?  I'd expect the valveoil to be in a metal container or oilcan rather than a glassjar?

I also noticed some withering on some boards of the Grate.....


OCD is good.

[Dave Eggleston]

On one trip to Argentina, in Patagonia riding in the cab of a Henschel, I noted the fireman pulled out a pot for yerba mate, the local brewing bark, as we neared a stop. At the stop the brakemen joined us, the fireman tapped the boiler for boiling water and a pot was made up quickly, shared among those gathered. I can only imagine what beyond yerba mate and water was consumed from the water...