Bob Stears' Conoco Tank Car Plans

[Jim Courtney]

As I arrived home this morning, at the end of my 24 hour shift in the NICU, I stopped at the mailbox and found the September-October issue of The Gazette inside.

Better yet, the centerfold of the magazine has gorgeous 1/4 inch drawings of the Conoco wide frame tank cars of 1926-1927, CONX 20-38, the ones with the tall skinny domes.

Bob Stears' drawings illustrate the various lettering styles:

Late 1920s to early 1930s lettering with "Continental Oil Co." on the tank in both an odd Roman and a smaller Gothic font, from those few period photos available:



https://ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/RD053-D-RGW-Tank-Cars/G0000RwEoW3kIQqQ/I0000RmnQLU0LQRk/C0000Vd2qoA2MbNU



There is also the later lettering with the large "CONOCO" banner, green on silver with black underframe from early to late 1930s and white on solid black tank car from the very late 1930s until the cars were sold to NdeM in 1945-6.






OK, Bob, let's see lettering sets in all three scales from your beautiful art work, as a first project from the new San Jaun Model Co!!  If Sn3 sets become available, I will be tempted to strip one of my PBL Conoco tanks, Jimmy Booth weathering and all, to have a 1920s car.

______________________


PS -- turn the pages of the same issue to page 55 for a set of three 1/4 inch drawings of the St Charles boxcars with lettering as delivered to the UPD&G in early 1898 (later C&S 7700 series) and the late 1898 boxcars with original C&S Roman lettering (8025-8064).

The third drawing shows the cars as lettered in the c1901 C&S box herald scheme!

[Keith Hayes]

All, which cars were assigned to the C&S?  Looks like 35 with the silver paint and green lettering,  for sure

[Jim Courtney]

Bob Sloan's article in the Nov/Dec 1980 Gazette references CONX wide frame cars 22 and 35 as assigned to C&S destinations, shipping from the refinery in Denver.

John's Morrison thread (for whatever reason deleted) included this C&S memo:

July 8, 1933. C&S Memo. A Cloudburst above Morrison July 7th did considerable damage on the Morrison Branch. Two bridges were washed out at Morrison, leaving five cars behind the washed-out bridges: CONX 19; CONX 30, and C&S box cars 8244, 8156, and 8269. CONX 19 has truck standing on end of small bridge, trucks derailed, car standing upright. (History Colorado Collection, formerly Colorado State Historical Society

So, at least three of the tall dome Conoco tank cars in Bob's drawings were known to have been used on the C&S: CONX 22, 30 and 35.

Where there others? Bob Stears, what say ye?

[Jim Courtney]

FWIW, Keith,

There was a second group of big Conoco tank cars, rebuilt by the D&RGW at about the same time, using a standard GATX tank. These cars had a shorter, fatter dome and were numbered CONX 1-4 (replacing scrapped, early smaller cars?) and 39-46. Presumably the various lettering styles were the same, as in Bob's drawings.

Sloan's article as cited above lists CONX 1 as being used on the C&S, though I've never seen another citation or a photo of this car in use on the C&S.

I did find this one photo, though labeled as taken by John Maxwell in Alamosa, some time after the 1931 reweigh date:

https://ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/RD053-D-RGW-Tank-Cars/G0000RwEoW3kIQqQ/I00005IGkgT_7Im4/C0000Vd2qoA2MbNU



The CONX cars 5-19 were a mixed group of early, odd cars, rebuilt for narrow gauge use in the teens. Sloan lists CONX 5, 8, 10, and 15 of this group as being used on the C&S, and we know CONX 19 was one of the tank cars stranded in Morrison after the flood.

Here is an Otto Perry photo of two silver CONX tank cars in a Como bound freight out of Denver in 1931:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42966/rec/4



The second tank car is one of the tall dome cars as in Bob's drawings, no number legible that I can see. I think the smaller, near car is CONX 8, given the horizontal brake staff, as on UTLX cars.

[Keith Hayes]

Hot diggity dog! CONX 8 in silver! Now I wish mine was not painted.

CONX 8 is an odd duck, being shorter and smaller than the others. I like it!

[Robert Stears]

Thanks Jim.

 

#35 was definitely used on the C&S. There is a pretty blurred photo of one of these tall dome wide frame CONOCO tank cars at Pine in the unique Roman lettering scheme.

 

#35 was a bit of an outlier having been rebuilt/maintained by the C&S with 4’ 8” archbar trucks with outside hung brake beams.

 

Yes, decals for the various tank car lettering schemes are in the works.

 

Shameless Commerce alert:

 

San Juan Model Co. has just announced On3/On30 and Hon3 versions of these tank cars in all three lettering styles in various numbers as RTR styrene models with metal wheel sets and couplers– including #35 with the outside hung brake beam trucks. These RTR tank cars are expected to arrive in the fall of 2019. Reserve specific car numbers and lettering styles at www.sanjuanmodelco.com.

 

Special thanks to Dave Grandt who shared his wonderful tank car photographs and plan collection with me to facilitate these NG&SLG drawings and subsequent 1:48 and 1:87 model design plans.

 

 

 

From: Jim Courtney [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 11:39 AM
To: Robert Stears <[hidden email]>
Subject: Bob Stears' Conoco Tank Car Plans

 

As I arrived home this morning, at the end of my 24 hour shift in the NICU, I stopped at the mailbox and found the September-October issue of the Gazette inside.

Better yet, the centerfold of the magazine has gorgeous 1/4 inch drawings of the Conoco wide frame tank cars of 1926-1927, CONX 20-38, the ones with the tall skinny domes.

Bob Stears' drawings illustrate the various lettering styles:

Late 1920s to early 1930s lettering with "Conoco Oil Co." on the tank in both an odd Roman and a smaller Gothic font, from those few period photos available.

There is also the later lettering with the large "CONOCO" banner, green on silver with black underframe from early to late 1930s and white on solid black tank from the very late 1930s  until the cars were sold to NdeM in 1946.

OK, Bob, let's see lettering sets in all three scales from your beautiful art work, as a first project from the new San Jaun Model Co!!  If Sn3 sets become available, I will be tempted to strip one of my PBL Conoco tanks, Jimmy Booth weathering and all, to have a 1920s car.

PS -- turn the pages to 55 for a set of three 1/4 inch drawings of the St Charles boxcars with lettering as delivered to the UPD&G in early 1898 (later C&S 7700 series) and the late 1898 boxcars with original C&S Roman lettering (8025-8064).

The third drawing shows the cars as lettered in the c1901 C&S box herald scheme!

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA

 

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NAML

[Jim Courtney]

My, my, Bob . . .

This is great news. I just visited the web site and have reserved two of the HOn3 versions. Was this originally a Grandt Line project, given the two scales (HOn3 / On3), that you are bringing to fruition?

Looks like I'm going to be spending a few hours exploring the new web site. Perhaps Darel can add it to the links on the main page.

And I've looked at that Lad Arend photo of silver CONX 35 countless times and never noticed the outside brake beams on the trucks, but they are clearly visible.

Sure you don't want to offer the tanks in Sn3 as well? The only Sn3 models of this car were the PBL silver and black cars as brass imports. On the used market, PBL CONX tanks in black and silver are commanding prices of up to $600.00 per car. Besides, Keith really needs a silver CONX 35 to deliver gasoline to Leadville!

I'm looking forward to all your new projects to come!!

[Robert Stears]

We have many irons in the fire bringing together the various SJCC and former Grandt Line kits. However, this CONOCO tank car offering is our first de novo project.

 

The HOn3 CONOCO tank cars will go nicely with the former Grandt Line Hon3 kits – which will soon all be back on the market.

 

Better talk with Jimmy Booth about Sn3 versions of the CONOCO tank cars.

 

Thanks,

RS

 

From: Jim Courtney [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 10:26 AM
To: Robert Stears <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: Bob Stears' Conoco Tank Car Plans

 

My, my, Bob . . .

This is great news. I just visited the web site and have reserved two of the HOn3 versions. Was this originally a Grandt Line project, given the two scales (HOn3 / On3), that you are bringing to fruition?

Looks like I'm going to be spending a few hours exploring the new web site. Perhaps Darel can add it to the links on the main page.

And I've looked at that Lad Arend photo of silver CONX 35 countless times and never noticed the outside brake beams on the trucks, but they are clearly visible.

Sure you don't want to offer the tanks in Sn3 as well? On the used market, PBL CONX tanks in black and silver are commanding prices of up to $600.00 per car.

I'm looking forward to all your new projects to come!!

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA

 

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NAML

[Jim Courtney]

One other question, Bob.

So there is documentation that the earliest lettering scheme for the CONX tanks, as built, was the "Continental Oil Co." lettering in the smaller Gothic font? When did the same lettering, with the larger and odd Roman font show up?

Earliest photo of the black cars with Roman lettering I've seen is January of 1929. The earliest reweigh date that I've seen for the silver tank with green CONOCO lettering is 1932 (on the CONX 19, stranded in Morrison in 1933).


Well, let's get as many C&S photos of the big CONX wide frame tank cars out there:





Grant, January, 1929 . . . photo by Denver Water Board Special photographer


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/43130/rv/singleitem




Otto Perry, 1929, somewhere near Grant, per caption.



Silver CONX tank car in Black Hawk. 1939 Valuation Survey photo. (This can't be CONX 35 if next photo is correctly ascribed)


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/45822/rv/singleitem




At least one of the big CONX cars was in black paint with white CONOCO banner by April 11, 1937, on the last freight train from Como. Number isn't clear but it looks to be CONX 35.

So looks like Mike Trent is going to need at least one of the On3 versions of CONX 35 for his Q number 537 to pull -- will he chose silver/green or black/white??

Anyone know of any other photos of these neat cars?

[Robert Stears]

The tank car shown at pine was not #19 as that tank car was one of the early flat car versions with the side railings attached to the flat car side sills.

The info I was able to get from the available D&RGW Alamosa Shop erection drawings was that these "tall dome, wide frame" steel tank cars were numbered #20 though 38 and that they were built in two batches by the D&RGW Alamosa shops in late 1926 and early 1927.

My original thought was that the first batch received the "Gothic" font style lettering while the second batch received the peculiar "Roman" font lettering - both spelling out "Continental Oil Company". I can not prove this hypothesis. I also don't know when the fleet was re-painted silver with green lettering - probably sometime in the early 1930's. But, as with all things narrow gauge I seriously doubt they were all painted at once - especially since the C&S and D&RGW apparently maintained their CONOCO tank car assigned fleets separately. As such, I plan on running the early lettering styles and the silver tank versions together - with different numbers of course.

All these cars were sold to Mexico after WWII and I have only found one photo of how they looked (from the Dave Grandt collection).

This project would not have come together without the help of Dave Grandt. Thanks Dave!

[Jim Courtney]

Thanks, Bob, this is great information!

Helps to fill in the details of lettering and creates an approximation of a time line for all of the CONX tank cars, and how they appeared over the years. The two batch / two lettering style hypothesis makes sense, for the Gothic vs Roman lettering styles.

The early, smaller tank cars 5-19 were evidently converted to narrow gauge use in the 19teens and per Sloan's article in the 1980 Gazette article, they all originally carried "COLX" reporting marks. These are the only two photo I know of that shows COLX reporting marks, although they obviously have limited information:




https://ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/RD053-D-RGW-Tank-Cars/G0000RwEoW3kIQqQ/I0000Rwkg_F7JH20/C0000Vd2qoA2MbNU



Both are wreck scenes on the D&RG; the latter available in the Dorman collection, online, dated April of 1919.


By 1926-27, one could assume that the early cars were re-lettered to CONX and carried the same lettering styles as the big 20-38 then being built. They likely acquired the silver/green and black/white banners about the same time as the big cars.

https://ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/RD053-D-RGW-Tank-Cars/G0000RwEoW3kIQqQ/I00005ziZ3egcqiU/C0000Vd2qoA2MbNU

Morrison flood photo of 1933; CONX 19 has a 1932 RPKD date.


I have HOn3 and Sn3 versions of CONX 8 (Precision brass imports) and the PSC HOn3 version of CONX 10-11. I'm looking forward to separate decal lettering sets of your artwork to apply to theses cars. Given the smaller and shorter tanks on these cars, I suspect the Gothic version of the "Continental Oil Co." will be a better fit, to represent cars in service in the late 1920s/early 1930s.

Thanks again!

[Robert McFarland]

Check out Otto Perry photos OP-6259,OP-6265,OP-6266,and OP-6267

[Mike Trent]

Absolutely, Jim. I will make room for a couple of these. Somehow!

I've been on the road for a while, just got in last night, found all this to be great news indeed.

I'll check out the website asap. No surprise that Bob has been keeping himself busy!