Black Hawk - 100 Years Ago

[Dave Eggleston]

So true in that scale, Fred. I found myself thinking "just put the turntable on a staging track to the left of the yard" and then remembered that would be OUTSIDE!

I'm amazed at your compression and ability to maintain the feel of the yard at that size.

[Fred H.]

So I did something REALLY smart... I hired a professional track builder to take the last track plan and make it look more like the prototype. Here’s where we are as of now.



Super chuffed to see how he’s made it better. It will be code 210 rail on narrow gauge ties. Can’t wait to get my big stash of track sold and this into production.

[Steve Black]

Can't wait to see pictures as you progress.

Steve

[Fred H.]

Here’s the final track blueprint. Think it’s going to be terrific!



Compared to Sanborn (1900):

[Fred H.]

Well, friends, believe it or not... I'm finally making progress... Have the custom turnouts in place and decided to deviate from the track plan slightly... More to come!

[drgwcs]

Cool- well I have to admit I was wrong- I had joked in a clinic in modeling the C&S in a compact space you couldn't do it in Large Scale- OK relatively small space works  If it is any help in keeping it compact in modeling the station there is an misprint/ error that crept into the Colorado Rail Annual that gave the station width at 38'. It is actually 28' (corrected) according to the government valuation drawings found by Rick Steele. That misprint unfortunately was what Harry Brunk had based his drawings on too. Not his fault. Looking forward to seeing your progress- I loved modeling Black Hawk really neat town to model. My rendition in HOn3 at one foot wide.



Jim

[Fred H.]

Thanks, Jim. The layout is 5.75 feet deep and 19.0 feet long. Not a lot of territory, but still should provide for a lot of switching fun. I have a nice 1:22.5 (LGB scale) model of Mogul #22 circa 1920. Also have a very nice 1:24 18-ton Shay which with minor modifications should look like it could have belonged in the Gilpin Tram family. Would loved to have done some dual gauge, but the turnouts were expensive enough! Would you be so kind as to point me to that 28' reference on the depot? Have Mike Blazek's plan and of course all of the Brunk articles...

[drgwcs]

They were in the files section here at one point but the links no longer work. Rick had sent me a copy and we had posted it on the C&S Facebook group (I am the moderator there) I had said 29 and 39 earlier going off memory oops-(I just fixed it) it is actually 28' (with the incorrect measurement from the Annual being 38') the end doors are 7' high by 36" wide.  I think a photo of the end in the same annual with timbers piled on the end also throws the proportion off too. These are ones that Rick Steele had found in the national archives. The photo is from there as well. (and I am not sure why it is posting sideways????)
Jim

[drgwcs]

We had a couple of discussions on depot width on the C&S Facebook group with a picture on the freight room end showing it appeared narrower. (I don't have Mike Blazek's plans not sure what width he used.) I was also concerned about my available space. It was at that point Rick Steele chimed in and sent the valuations. We were a little puzzled over the discrepancy. Anyhow a couple of weeks later I was looking at Narrow Gauge to Central and Silver Plume (CRRM annual 10) and there on p 207 was the error at 38'. Ah ha It was probably a misprint when the book was printed but has naturally thrown off a lot. Harry Brunk used this as one of his primary sources and I used a narrowed version of Harry's beautiful plans. My station's platform is slightly narrowed and the station is about a foot or so narrow- just to fit within the track geometry as my scene is only a foot deep in HOn3. It is "found space" I narrowed an aisle on the other side in front of my Idaho Springs scene and that gave me enough to build.
Jim

[Jim Courtney]

Fixed the photo for you, Jim . . .  

[drgwcs]

Thanks- not sure what happened- looked normal in my computer..........

[Fred H.]

Thanks for posting the ICC Valuation Drawing, Jim. Sadly, I can't make out a whole lot of the information... Any chance you were actually able to transcribe it??

[Chris Walker]

Fred H. wrote

Thanks for posting the ICC Valuation Drawing, Jim. Sadly, I can't make out a whole lot of the information... Any chance you were actually able to transcribe it??

Right click the image:
open in new tab/page/window:
hover and click image if a + cursor icon is visible:
Ctrl and + to enlarge to whatever suits your eyes.

[Fred H.]

Thanks, Chris. Here's what I can make out... Anyone discern anything else?

C&S Valuation Drawing
Interstate Commerce Commission
Division of Valuation

Date: 10-11-(19)18
Carrier: The Colorado & Southern Ry. Co.
Valuation Section: Colo. 13A
Page 12

Location: Black Hawk MP 36.0 Elev. 8032'
Structural Party No. 3 Recorder C.L. Dimmler

16 Depot 28 x 80' x 11-4 eaves. Woodwork ??
#1  Rm. # 1 2 & 3 ??

[Sketch -- pretty clear]

Plan

Roof 6/4 ?? on 2x6 @ 2' oc. (on-center) - 2x6 ??
30" proj(ection). ?? rm 1, 2 & 3 plaster on
wood lath on 2x6 @ 16" oc.
1 (chimney?) - 17"x21"x13' on brkts. (brackets?)

Walls 18" (rough?) rubble - r(oo)ms. # 1, 2 & 3
plaster ?? - wains(cotting). - 45" ofix ??
parts - plast(er). & wain. walls above ?? - ??
side 2x4 @ 16" oc.
part 3-4 on #4 side - boarded 8'1" high
Fl. (floor) - 1, 2 & 3 1x4 (t&g) on 1" on 2x10 @ 2' oc.
(Fl.) #4 - of 2" on 2x12 @ 18" o.c.
part(ition). 1-2 has opening 7'-6" x 9'-6"

Doors
2 @ 3x7' pan(el).
2 @ 2-6 x 6-6 (pan.)
2 @ 6-10 x 7-0 1x6(?) on 1x6 t&g (tongue-and-groove) sldg. (sliding), pockets.
1 @ 2-7 x 6-6 pan.
1 @ 2-6 x 6x6 (pan.)

Windows
10 @ 2-6 x 6-5 4 lts. D.H. (double hung)
 1 @ 2-3 x 7-0 1 (lts.) sldng.
 1 @ 1-10 x 2-4 4 (lts.) fix(ed)

Plfms (Platforms) - #1 of 2 on 2x12 @ 18" oc on
bldg. & ? (length?) 10x10 on 8x8 x 2' posts
#2 - over creek 2" on 3x10 @ 18" oc.

[Fred H.]

I've been mastering Home Designer Pro (prosumer version of Chief Architect) for the past couple of years. Decided to combine some photos, plans, and the ICC valuation data to do the Black Hawk depot. Here's where I am so far. I had to guess at the pitch of the roof and so I went with 5/12. (Note that I need to figure out how to turn the concrete into rubble and the platforms need to be added.)

Anyone who might have some insight as to how the three rooms to the left of the plan might have been used, please chime in! (I am particularly interested in how the two interior doors listed in the ICC valuation might have been placed. I presume one went into the freight room, but, again, any thoughts would be welcome.)

[Chris Walker]

Lad Arend took a picture of the Freightside wall of the Black Hawk Depot : it was printed in CRRA #10 Narrow Gauge to Central and Silver pg 209; Klinger's ClearCreek Memories has same uncredited on pg 105.

Harry Brunk's rendition was featured in the NG&SL Jul/Aug 1980 and has the 3 windows/1 frtdoor matching the Arend photo.

Link to Jeff Terry's image of Harry's rendition.  https://flic.kr/p/gcgyCo





Ping me if you need clarification.

[Fred H.]

Thanks, Chris. Yes, I found that picture as well and modified the above post. Still trying to reconcile some things between the photos, plans, and ICC valuation:

1. The ICC valuation indicates that there were TEN double-hung windows that were 30" x 77" but the photos and plans only show NINE windows. And, it also indicates another "sliding" window that was 27" x 84" (single lite) and another "fixed" window 22" x 28" neither of which are shown...

2. Placement of the indoor doors remain a puzzle.

BTW, I also have Mike Blazek's plans of the depot and these contain some very interesting data/details. More to come...

[drgwcs]

Fred H. wrote

I've been mastering Home Designer Pro (prosumer version of Chief Architect) for the past couple of years. Decided to combine some photos, plans, and the ICC valuation data to do the Black Hawk depot. Here's where I am so far. I had to guess at the pitch of the roof and so I went with 5/12. (Note that I need to figure out how to turn the concrete into rubble and the platforms need to be added.)

Anyone who might have some insight as to how the three rooms to the left of the plan might have been used, please chime in! (I am particularly interested in how the two interior doors listed in the ICC valuation might have been placed. I presume one went into the freight room, but, again, any thoughts would be welcome.)

A few notes- the 3'X 7' tall doors were the ones on the "office" end. (they have often been modeled too wide due to info in the NG annual and a couple of pics in that book that show lumber sitting on the end platform that throw the proportions off. The long room in the middle was the waiting room with the ones on the left the agents office. The big opening was almost the width of the room 7'6"X 9'6"- was between the two smaller rooms on the left not the end and middle rooms.  I modeled this with a beam for what it is worth. My suspicion was that in the early days the other room might have been an office for the Gilpin Tram. I came across a little blurb (but can't remember where) that indicated that the Gilpin had offices in the Central City and Black Hawk stations. There is a photo of the Central City station that shows a sign for the Gilpin office but I have not seen one that shows a sign for the Black Hawk Station. Just a theory but it would explain the extra door in such close proximity in what is in essence one room by the time of the valuation.  (It might also explain an additional interior window but I did not add one) The sliding was likely the ticket window. Exact door placement of the interior doors and ticket window(s) is not known.
The back of the wall between the freight room and the waiting room is listed as rough boards- I used a piece of random scribed siding.
Here is my rendition of the interior- the ticket window and interior door placement is a guess. I got the chimney wrong though. I did not catch that it was bracketed- This would be in essence a chimney that is hanging on wooden brackets above the ceiling. It is now an illegal practice in most all building codes. The stove(s) would have piped into it in the ceiling.
As a note my stations stone (in HO) was modeled using, believe it or not, pebble textured scrapbooking paper. Sadly both Hobby Lobby and then Michaels have discontinued it but similar stuff can be found on Etsy. It is over a foamcore shell. Has just enough give where the window castings press in and seal well with no light leaks. The interior was done in scrapbooking paper as well with wood wainscotting.
These photos are looking from the back of the station toward the front. (This is the direction that it is seen on my layout and the same orientation as on the UC&N.)




(The top "beam pieces" on top here are a bit crude but were added to give the roof strength. I would have done different if they could be viewed through the doors or windows. The wires are for the just plug lighting- I had to block off a column to hide the wires)