1920's Thingamobob on Cooke 2-6-0 Tenders

[Ken Martin]

I think it is a storage/tool box. It is similar to the box under the 911.
In the below pic you can see the handle and door.

Ken

[Robert McFarland]

Prior to the removal of track south of Garos in the early 20's the C&S ran a few stock extras as far as Cohen Spur-could the double header be one of them?

[John Greenly]

Hi Jim,

great thread, another fascinating C&S mystery!

forgive my slow response, I had a busy work week.  Here are some dimensions of the thingamabobs.

From the photo of engine 7,  I find that the A frame is made of 3" (or possibly 2.5") wide strap.  The flat top of the A is 48" high above the tender deck level.  The crosspiece of the A is centered at 24".  The flat top of the frame is about 6.5" wide,  the outside width (that is, from outside edge one side to outside edge other side) at the crosspiece is 16" and at the base, at tender deck level (not visible) it is 24" outside width.  That's assuming that the legs are straight for their whole length except for the 90 degree twist near the top.

The can is 4" diameter, the tube leading to it is around 3/4" diameter.  

The third leg attached to the middle of the crosspiece of the A is bent forward to mount somewhere on the tender deck to form a tripod.  I don't have enough of a view in any of these photos to tell how far forward it goes.  You're on your own for that one.  

The thingamabob on engine 8's tender is not identical, it's not as tall.     The A frame is only 42" high, with the crossbar centered at 22" above deck. Otherwise it's the same as number 7.  

These dimensions are calculated from both photos based on the tender tank side being 42" high and the flare and coal top extension each 12".  I believe those are correct, but if not, then all these dimensions should be scaled appropriately.  The transverse dimensions are also confirmed by scaling from the 8' width of the baggage car behind #7.

By the way, I like the signal cord passthrough theory of this device.  But what a Rube Goldberg gadget!  Hard to believe it worked very well, with stretchy cord and a lot of friction, and the cars jostling around.  How was that signalling done before this thingamabob showed up-- and afterward, too?

Hope this helps,
John

[Todd Hackett]

I've seen the ferrule for the signal cord on many coaches, and was once told that they went to a signal device in the locomotive cab, but this thread got me thinking that didn't remember seeing photos of the cord running the length of the train in service. I looked through some of my collected photos searching for photos of these cords, and how they terminated. One of the first interesting photos I came across was another view of baggage #4 with the pipe on the roof (this one taken in Como).


I found several showing the rope on the back of trains:

This view at Rocky Point shows the cord coming out the back of a car, and it looks to be tied off to the handrail. It's possible that it connects to a signal whistle either here or on the other platform that the conductor could hear. The train is a mixed with two boxcars between this coach and the locomotive, so the cord clearly doesn't extend to the locomotive.


Here's an early view on the Georgetown Loop that's much later than the last photo, which also looks to have the rope tied off. Here's the front of the train, with no apparent continuation to the locomotive:



The cord can be seen running through an observation car on the iron bridge at Forks Creek. This one looks to be tied off as it leaves the ferrule in the car body rather than being tied off to the railing.


This view seems to show the cord extending to the locomotive, but I can't tell whether it ends at the back of the coal bunker (at a signal whistle?) or continues to the cab.


This photo at Silver Plume in 1921 seems to show the signal cord going into the "thingamob" on the back of #5 as Mike suggested.

[Jim Courtney]

Well, this is probably one of the more arcane C&S threads on the Forum.

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments and insights.

Todd's last enlargement, of C&S 5 at Silver Plume in 1926, clinches it for me. The signal cord is clearly visible running from the ferrule of RPO 13 to the soup can on the A-frame of C&S number 5. So Mike's theory must be correct, this odd device and the "conduit" on the tender side must be to redirect the signal cord around the tender coal boards to the gangway.

I've since reviewed the passenger folio sheets, the QuickPic books for RPO 13 and Coach 76 and the discussions on the C&S Passenger car website: https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/CandS/dsp-passenger/bmx_42c.htm. There is no evidence that any C&S passenger car was ever equipped with electrical lighting or any other electric appliance. Thus the roof "conduit" on C&S baggage 4 must be a similar device to run the signal cord over the roof of baggage 4, instead of through the inside of the car near the lower clerestory.

I've always associated these cords as "signal" cords, based on my experiences riding city buses in Ft. Worth as a kid. There was a small cord just above the windows on both sides of the bus. A passenger could reach up, pull the cord and signal the driver that you wanted off at the next stop. I recall a similar arrangement on the St Charles street cars in New Orleans.

But that begs the question about the two air lines visible on each passenger car -- visible as the two angle cocks and air hoses in Todd's 5th photograph. Conventional wisdom is that one airline was the main train line for operating the automatic brake system, and the other being a signal line. Why have duplicate signaling systems, one mechanical (cord) and the other pneumatic?

The QuickPic books describes the cords running the length of each car, connected in series, as "emergency brake cords". This implies that if a passenger car suddenly began to bounce along the ties, or if someone fell off, anyone (trainman, passenger, postal clerk) could pull the cord and put the air brake system into full emergency stop. To "big hole" the train, as they say. That might explain the duplicate "signaling" system -- the conductor or brakeman could signal the engineer using the air system, while the cords were an emergency stop system.

I somehow can't imagine the railroad allowing just anyone to make emergency brake applications. If this was the true purpose of the cords and tender device, perhaps that's why we don't usually see any obvious connection between the tender device and the following passenger cars--they were seldom actually used. If I were the conductor, I wouldn't want any kid being able to mess with my train.

Thanks to John Greenly for his analytic skills, giving us basic dimensions of the tender "thingamobobs". And by the way, John is right, the middle, shorter support of the A-frame is not vertical. It angles forward to form a tripod brace, but is not bolted to the tender deck:


A.A. Anderson Collection, in the Klingers' C&S Highline Meomories . . ., March 6, 1928 wreck of C&S number 7.


The A-frame is barely visible at the right edge of the frame. The middle strap support angles down and is bolted to the tender's water hatch (arrow).

[Mike Trent]

Hi, Jim. I doubt the cord was connected to anything that would big hole a train. If they could do that, they wouldn't need to run the cord through the whole length, since they could do it in any car. As I said before, I really don't know how they did it, or how the signal line works.

It seems to me that the D&S converted to straight air a few years ago which uses a signal line similar to what we see on the C&S equipment. Maybe Rick can enlighten us.

And, pursuant to adding another dimension in our arcane discussion here, do note the rather crude corner in the left rear bunker of that wrecked engine. I don't think that rough edge is wreck damage, just slightly sprung from a broken weld. You don't often see this sort of thing in prototype pictures, but anyone who has actually worked on these engines can tell you the closer you get, the more crude everything looks. We tend to drive ourselves nuts as modelers trying to get everything perfect, and it's almost disheartening to see how the steel on the running boards or almost anything else on a real engine was roughly cut off by somebody in the shop waving a torch around. So, take heart, guys. Just worry about getting it "close enough", doesn't have to be perfect. Of course, "close enough" is pretty close even in O scale. But still.... don't lose your mind over it. Those guys in the shop didn't. They often used hand held torches, not lasers to cut sheet iron, and cutting wheels to smooth it off. Just as we do with the old Dremel.  

 

[South Park]

  The comment about allowing anyone access to big hole a train needs to be tempered
against a time when community and sense of personal accountability were unbelievably
high, compared to today, when people are found deep fried, as they try to steal copper
wire from substations.  Who was to keep the scumbags from causing problems on the
Ouray and Red Mountain Tel. Co. lines we see below ?  Quick answer, they did not
have scumbags back then like we do today.



  Lines like this, within easy reach of passersby, were common in the early days of
tel coms and electrical power.  People had and used common sense, and a much stronger
sense of civic duty and personal integrity.